451 stroker questions

[Myasylum]

These are all just thoughts going through my head before spring arrives and I can actually work on the car.
So first... the block. If I purchased one of these stroker kits from say 440 Source the crank is already ground. Do I need to do any machining on the block at all?
Then the heads... let's just say due to funds or what have you, would the stock 400 heads work in a pinch? Do I need new rocker arms, push rods ect?
Cam? Is there a proper cam to use in the stroker engine?
What is the standard cost of building this 451? Can this be done for about 4-5K?
Also if someone has done this before, and successfully built a reliable motor. What parts did you use? I just may copy you. Lol.
Thanks!

 

[4mulas]

You may need to align bore the mains, you may need to bore your cylinders, and you may need to deck it for square etc…. Same as any rebuild it all depends on the condition of your block.

Stock heads would technically work but would negate all the work and reasons you’re doing the stroker in the first place. Get large valve better breathing aluminum heads

The rocker gear and it’s requirements depend on your cam profile and it’s spring requirements, pushrods also dependant on the above.

Cam choice depends on compression, heads, and power youre going for.

There isn’t any one ‘right’ answer or combination. There are many variables dependant including what your goal or end game requirements are.

I’d say with good heads and an adjustable valvetrain a budget of 7 grand from carb to pan is achievable. Maybe buying some items used like pan and windage tray, intakes, carbs, ignition etc…..

 

[ruffcut]

I might add there is also a requirement for a suitable torque converter if using an automatic and also is the differntial up to the task. And remember with added power you will also need brakes capable of stopping said vehicle. Lots to think about! So is 5 grand or so going to be enough? I doubt it.

 

[diesel_lv]

What is your intent? A stock 440 converter will work just fine on a warmed up 451. Unless you're planning on driving aggressively, the stock bakes stopped you before and will still stop you. As for heads, if you are going to be using 91 octane and going 10:1 or 10.5:1, you'll need aluminum. Not sure what 440 Source offers for compression w stock heads on their stroker kits. 1st n foremost, be honest w yourself, what are your intentions. Then your budget. If your budget won't get you your intentions, are you willing to sacrifice one or the other.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Yes you can do stock heads, pushrods and rockers on a 452. The machining really is no different then overhauling a 400. The 452 should get a new damper and the torque convertor will need to be for a internally balanced crank, it is possible to grind the 2 externally balanced weights off the convertor. There are two rod lengths...you can use 400 or 440 rods and purchase the appropriate pistons. I think 440 source sells the kit with 440 length aftermarket rods. The 452 we had used a 440 steel crank machined to fit.
It's no more money to go bigger on the cubic inches. A 400 has a taller deck and then a 454 chevy but has a .082 larger bore.
Our first stroker 510 build used a lot of stock parts such as you mentioned. It was the most economical engine we had ever put together. Our best was 23 mpg w 3.23s on a 120 mile trip. Since then I think we could get 12mpg if we tried hard. Much more fun to do gallons per mile though.

 

[Myasylum]

Makes me wonder if a crate motor is an option. I just don't know who among them is reputable.

 

[Cojohnso1]

Assuming you have total choice on 400 production blocks? (Which of course is highly unlikely today?) The 400 "230" date stamp prior to Oct 1971 were said to have strongest web cast for the 400 block. While 630s had the thickest cylinder walls.

I believe the older 230 block with stronger bottom end webbing is the most desirable block for a stroker build. If one was building a shorter stroked high Rev turbo build? Thicker cylinder walls would certainly be more beneficial. But what ever block is used? And as 4mulas outlined? Block condition will dictate the machining requirements. The true "451" build is a blocked bored .035 over. I liked/use Ross 4.375" piston (Stock 400 4.34 + .035 over bore) https://www.rosspistons.com/product...lat-top-4-375-bore-3-750-stroke-3-50cc-99494/

Unless your block prep required heavy deck machining to clean? Your head gasket choice will be dictated by any deck work. And desired final static compression. (For street pump gas? 10.0:1 is about as high I would suggest unless more aggressive quench and head work is considered.) Stock length 6.7" rods. After market rods of course will provide greater strength and performance longevity. (Consider aluminum rods if budget allows?) I found a set of BME rods on their over stock list from their site for $500 about 3 years ago. http://www.bmeltd.com/rodoverstocksale.htm

Heads is the next step. I would highly recommend aluminum. By the time you get old irons machined any where near today's aluminum just out of the box? You still have heavier and older heads that are more likely to wear and fail. JMO. What head? And cc? Your desired compression build will narrow that decision. Indy or Eddys can both easily get you to your street build.

Then fuel and air delivery. And of course today has many options. The EFI systems are nice. But spendy. And do require a new learning curve. But that doesn't mean be afraid. Personally? I would still go with a single 4 barrel and performance intake? (My advice? Use the smallest carb that can deliver the CFMs your engine requires?)

I am a strong believer that cam profile choice should be last for consideration. If I was building for near all street? I would consider a hydraulic roller. Stroker engines typically struggle for high RPM anyways. So build to 6500 RPM redline. Give block/heads and fuel/air induction system configuration to comp cams? And have them custom grind a cam for your build and application.

Converter and drivetrain considerations are now dictated by your engine output to the vehicle chassis setup. Including vehicle weight and tire requirements/choice.

But in my opinion? It starts with the block bottom end.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Makes me wonder if a crate motor is an option. I just don't know who among them is reputable.

Blueprint engines used to have a bb mopar crate engine. But I don't see one listed. I personally wouldn't go down the crate engine route, especially if you have a hart to find 230 block.
This article has a few, can't say I have heard of any of them, other then indy.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/big-block-mopar-crate-engines-for-sale/

 

[IQ52]

I cannot say it will help...some information may be of use.....but here are some of the travails of building our 450ci stroker. I think there are some dyno results here also. This being the smallest horsepower 450 we have ever built.

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/400-450-stroker-cheap-parts-lotta-work.484272/

And what the heck, here is a list of parts for a 770 HP single 4-bbl pump gas 451 stroker with Edelbrock RPM cylinder heads.....

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,78039.0.html

Gives you an idea of minimum to maximum abilities of a normally aspirated pump gas 451 stroker.

 

[Cojohnso1]

I cannot say it will help...some information may be of use.....but here are some of the travails of building our 450ci stroker. I think there are some dyno results here also. This being the smallest horsepower 450 we have ever built.

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/400-450-stroker-cheap-parts-lotta-work.484272/

And what the heck, here is a list of parts for a 770 HP single 4-bbl pump gas 451 stroker with Edelbrock RPM cylinder heads.....

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,78039.0.html

Gives you an idea of minimum to maximum abilities of a normally aspirated pump gas 451 stroker.

770 HP on N/A single carb pump gas? Not too shabby at all. That kinda power will provide plenty of challenges getting drivetrain and chassis setup to control.

My index 451 Duster Drag car. At 100 HP less than 770 HP runs low 10s at 3000 lbs. I know we hear of far faster. But 10 sec car is fast. And can hurt you quick if you are complacent. The car has a spool in its 8 3/4" Mosier axled rear-end. And though it can corner ok. BE CAREFUL. Hit the gas too much on a corner? And one will be in the ditch faster than you can say. "I shouldn't have done that!"