64 Sport Fury...the good and the bad

[miller]

After all these years...it finally runs! A good day, yesterday morning. Broke the cam in, with a hand from my youngest son, and neighbor.

This is my 69 440, with the 63 crossram, a pair of 600 cfm Eddys, and a Crower cam. Fired right off...then the 2000 RPM run, 20 minutes, though had to break it up. First 12 minutes, then had a fuel leak one joint, on the brass tee. Shut it down to have a look, and found the one seat in the tee was bad. Means getting another new tee, but re-tighened, wrapped it, and ran the engine the final 8-10 minutes. After letting it cool down some, and making a slight adjustment on the idle stops, settled in at 800 RPMs.

Might be able to go to 750, on the idle...will know later. Was surprised, and glad I checked, all the mixture screws, on both carbs!! Out of the box, both new, one carb had 1 1/2 turns...the other had 2 1/2 turns! Reset all at 2 turns. Just at that, and a 'guess' for timing, it ran great. Of course, after dealing with my two 'issues', will be time to dial things in, though it seems to be fairly close.

Besides the bad tee, other thing is...after it gets to temp, and shut it down...coolant is actually boiling, in the upper radiator hose. What the hell? Suspect thermostat sticking...but I'll have to pull it, and find out what's going on.

My son let my wife use his phone, and made a video. Once I get a copy, maybe I'll post it.

 

[Beekeeper]

Sounds like you have a leak in the cooling system somewhere.

 

[miller]

Pressure checked the cooling system at 15 lbs. 69 440, 67 3-row 22" radiator, and by the book, those 'later' systems were 16 lbs. Using a new Stant 16 lb cap.
Pressure checked for 10 minutes. Yes, have spring in lower hose.

But, any ideas, toss 'em my way!

 

[Beekeeper]

If pressure test was at ambiant temp things can open up when it up to temp. The only way the coolant can boil in the system is if it has atmosphere in it. You may some air trapped in the system somewhere

 

[pushrod]

I always use the "fail safe" thermostat as. When they stick it is in the open position.

 

[miller]

You may some air trapped in the system somewhere

Appreciate that, Beekeeper. I had tested the thermostat, and drilled the 1/8" hole in it, to let it bleed. Maybe that's not enough.
Plan to pull the thermostat, and re-test it. Think it was a 185. If I have to, I'll try things out, with no thermostat, to check the flow. Pump, cap, and thermostat all new.

 

[Mike67]

Sounds like air in the system.

 

[miller]

Sounds like air in the system.

Is there a way to get it out? Never had that problem on 383s...this is my first 440.

Pulled the 180* thermostat, and re-tested it...opened about right. Though, I recall looking at the temp gauge, while I had it just idling, temp running fairly high, then suddenly dropped to a cooler temp. Gotta wonder if the stat might have been hung, then gave it up...

 

[Glenwood]

i used to just let it run with the cap off. I'll be going down this road very soon too!

 

[Yatzee]

After all these years...it finally runs! A good day, yesterday morning. Broke the cam in, with a hand from my youngest son, and neighbor.

This is my 69 440, with the 63 crossram, a pair of 600 cfm Eddys, and a Crower cam. Fired right off...then the 2000 RPM run, 20 minutes, though had to break it up. First 12 minutes, then had a fuel leak one joint, on the brass tee. Shut it down to have a look, and found the one seat in the tee was bad. Means getting another new tee, but re-tighened, wrapped it, and ran the engine the final 8-10 minutes. After letting it cool down some, and making a slight adjustment on the idle stops, settled in at 800 RPMs.

Might be able to go to 750, on the idle...will know later. Was surprised, and glad I checked, all the mixture screws, on both carbs!! Out of the box, both new, one carb had 1 1/2 turns...the other had 2 1/2 turns! Reset all at 2 turns. Just at that, and a 'guess' for timing, it ran great. Of course, after dealing with my two 'issues', will be time to dial things in, though it seems to be fairly close.

Besides the bad tee, other thing is...after it gets to temp, and shut it down...coolant is actually boiling, in the upper radiator hose. What the hell? Suspect thermostat sticking...but I'll have to pull it, and find out what's going on.

My son let my wife use his phone, and made a video. Once I get a copy, maybe I'll post it.

You probably have air in the system. The inner two pistons are siamese and tend to produce a lot of concentrated heat really fast and a lot of steam if air is present. Let it cool, remove the rad cap and massage the lower hose to force any air to the top. I'd start with a 160 stat ( get the coolant flowing earlier ) and a 16 pound cap and if you have an overflow bottle the cap should release the air with fluid and then just suck back fluid out of the overflow bottle as the engine cools. You may have to "heat cycle" the engine a few times keeping an eye on the fluid level in the overflow bottle - don't let it go dry or air will be sucked back in. I think your rad is a bit small for a 440, a dilemma I had, and, other than butchering my rad support for a 26 to 28 inch rad I added an extra cooling loop. You can cool the engine, remove the rad cap, lower the fluid level in the upper tank and watch the coolant flow in the upper tank as the stat opens. This will also allow any trapped air to go to atmosphere. I'm assuming that you have a shroud and a quality high pressure water pump ( all pumps aren't of equal quality ) to prevent air and steam at the cylinder walls.
Good luck and the next time you break in a cam, put a household fan on high in front of the grill.

 

[Mike67]

They make a vacuum that will allow you to remove all of the air that ties into a coolant tank. When the vacuum is low enough you open a valve that allows the coolant to flow/fill every bit of the system. Those are tools can be bought, prices vary depending on mfg , I've never seen one for rent...
Otherwise I've always filled/ran with cap off and every now and then squeezed the lower hose which seemed to burp the system...like Yatzee described.
https://store.snapon.com/Cooling-
System-Vacuum-Fillers-Kit-Cooling-System-Filler-P889179.aspx
http://www.mityvac.com/pages/info_service_cs.asp

 

[miller]

Actually, the three-row radiator, is listed for a 67 Coronet w/ac, and some C bodies.

Flat didn't care for the 2000 RPM bit, but that's the way it goes.
Appears I have air in the cooling system. So, think I'll run it some, without the thermostat. At least that will give me good flow, that I'll check, while I'm adjusting the timing, and carbs. Like to see how it acts, since I've always heard 440s run on the hot side anyway. Hopefully, some of that air will get pushed out, before I try a thermostat again.
I've run 383s without a thermostat before, only issue getting it to warm up, enough. Think this 440 has had enough of a hot run, for now!

btw...not running an over-flow tank.

 

[Mike67]

Found this one that can be ordered from Wal-Mart for $37... That's worth a few t-stat & gasket replacements...time and material...and guess work!
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Auto-Coo...4406&wl11=online&wl12=159402019&wl13=&veh=sem

 

[miller]

Thanks for all the heads-up. I'll look at a purge tool, if it doesn't bleed out the old way.

Have to wait, until I find another tee, maybe at a local truck supply, or will lap in the seat of the one I have.
But, overall, fairly pleased with the running. Right now, have no idea where the timing is, until I toss a light on it. Carb mixture un-touched, but tach ready, when I get the leak fixed. Idles good, fires right off, and putting it into gear, no change in idle speed. Going to be interesting to check where timing, and mixture sit.
No indication of boiling fuel, after shutting down, or pinging...have so-called white insulator gaskets, under the carbs, and seem to be doing what they do.

No sign of the video, yet. Guess I'll have to wake that boy up!

 

[miller]

Finally got another new brass tee, and no leak. Going to start tuning today.