68 charger 6.1 hemi swap low buck help

[chesk]

Hi guys.... New here, I'm from Paraguay. I introduced myself a little while ago.

I'm here looking for help with a Hemi swap in a '68 Charger. I currently have a 318 and auto trans. Maybe a 727? I'm not sure.

I like to use modern engines in my projects.

Well, here in Paraguay, we don't have these Hemi engines in salvage yards; they're very hard to find. I'll have to import them.

There's a guy in Miami who already sent me some engines. He has a 6.1 Hemi and NAG1 from an '08 Charger with 160,000 miles for $3,100, missing the alternator, throttle pedal, and PCM. My budget is tight. I have extra shipping costs and import fees to Paraguay. My research says this NAG1 is expensive to run. He sent me the engine without the NAG1 for $2,500.
So, I ask... what transmission can I use on the 6.1 at a low cost?
Is there a tutorial online for doing the rewire and PCM tune yourself like on the LS?
I already have experience with LS, rewire, PCM tune, etc.
I just want to keep costs low.
All help is welcome.
I'm not worried about the manufacturing part; I'm a good bodyworker and mechanic. Electrical stuff scares me; I don't want to spend $3,000 on a standalone kit.

 

[70chall440]

More than likely that 318 has a 904 behind it rather than a 727. That said, you can use either, in fact any small block Mopar transmission can be used.

While the NAG1 is a good trans, it is going to require you to modify the floor pan to include the torsion bar cross member, there are kits available.

In the spirit of keeping costs low I would use the 904 (or 727) as all of your other stuff (cross member, shifter linkage, speedometer, etc. will work).

IMO I would not probably go with a 6.1 especially living where you do, I would opt for a 5.7 which are a lot more plentiful. You can do a cam swap and run headers and get pretty much the same performance assuming this is going to just be a driver. If you intend on building a high HP car then go with the 6.1 or better yet go with a 6.4.

 

[chesk]

É mais do que provável que o 318 tenha um 904 atrás dele em vez de um 727. Dito isso, você pode usar qualquer um deles; na verdade, qualquer transmissão Mopar de bloco pequeno pode ser usada.

Embora a NAG1 seja uma boa transmissão, será necessário modificar o assoalho para incluir a travessa da barra de torção. Há kits disponíveis.

Visando manter os custos baixos, eu usaria o 904 (ou 727) como todos os seus outros equipamentos (travessa, articulação do câmbio, velocímetro, etc. funcionarão).

Na minha opinião, eu provavelmente não escolheria um 6.1, especialmente morando onde você mora. Eu optaria por um 5.7, que é muito mais abundante. Você pode trocar o comando de válvulas e instalar cabeçotes e obter praticamente o mesmo desempenho, supondo que seja apenas um driver. Se você pretende montar um carro com alta potência, escolha o 6.1 ou, melhor ainda, um 6.4.

Thanks for replying.
Here in Paraguay, you can't find any Hemi, not even a 5.7, 6.1, 6.2, or 6.4. They're only available by import.
Metalwork doesn't scare me; I'm good at modifications and welding.
I just need to save money on electronics. I want to modify the wire harnesses and tune the PCM myself.
My problem is getting the engine's electronics to work without spending 3,000.
I just want a car for leisure, nothing with a lot of power, but I like the 6.1 because it would add value to the vehicle here compared to a 5.7.

 

[70chall440]

Thanks for replying.
Here in Paraguay, you can't find any Hemi, not even a 5.7, 6.1, 6.2, or 6.4. They're only available by import.
Metalwork doesn't scare me; I'm good at modifications and welding.
I just need to save money on electronics. I want to modify the wire harnesses and tune the PCM myself.
My problem is getting the engine's electronics to work without spending 3,000.
I just want a car for leisure, nothing with a lot of power, but I like the 6.1 because it would add value to the vehicle here compared to a 5.7.

Ok so you come on here to ask some questions with the premise of being "low cost", I hate to tell you but Mopar (especially G3 Hemi swaps) and low cost do not go together.

I understand that you have to import everything which is why I suggested you use the trans you already have and to get a 5.7 because you can basically get a new or low mileage engine (before importation) for $3K not to mention that 5.7 parts are readily available (I suspect some South American country/s are importing Ram trucks with 5.7's in them which might make availability easier).

Its clear you already have a plan in mind, put the 6.1 and NAG1 into your 68, if so what questions remain? Can you do it cheaply? Depends on your definition of cheap or low cost. There are always cheaper ways of doing something but it always comes down to time vs money vs dependability. Some things you will have to buy/make/figure out;

Motor mounts
Exhaust manifolds/headers
ECU
Floor clearance for the NAG1
TCM for the NAG1
Updated wiring to support the G3 electronics
Drive shaft
Shifter and/or shifter mods to work with the NAG1
Cross member for the NAG1
Cooling system
New fuel system to support the G3
About 1000 more little issues that will develop

You can definitely do this but it is not going to be cheap, it can be "cheaper" than just buying everything if you do all the work yourself but even then it will not be cheap especially since you have to import almost everything.

Good luck and remember to have fun

 

[Lefty71]

Good luck and remember to have fun

He already owns a car that is high dollar and hard to find here....much less there. He says metal work doesnt scare him, but depending on the condition of the car as is, leaving it alone may just be the smartest move. Just a thought.

 

[70chall440]

He already owns a car that is high dollar and hard to find here....much less there. He says metal work doesnt scare him, but depending on the condition of the car as is, leaving it alone may just be the smartest move. Just a thought.

Yeah I always have to laugh when something like this comes up, "I want to build a highly desirable muscle car and use the latest technology but I don't want to spend any money"..

Sayings like "you get what you pay for", "spend the money once", and "do it right the first time" all come to mind. I like saving money on a project as much as the next guy but I know all too well that trying to build even a quality driver when using a G3 drive train is not cheap. If you want cheap buy a Chevy (which is why some choose to put an LS into a Mopar/Ford, etc.).

 

[RemCharger]

Yeah I always have to laugh when something like this comes up, "I want to build a highly desirable muscle car and use the latest technology but I don't want to spend any money"..

I want to go swimming but I hate getting wet. Please help.

 

[451Mopar]

Good part of 6.1 Hemi is no VVT and if on a budget can be converter to run with a carb and just an ignition system so don't really need an EFI computer.
The NAG1 seems like alot of trouble at this point. If staying with the EFI computer stuff, maybe check if Holley Terminator is supporting the transmission yet?

 

[furious70]

I would also suggest the truck 5.7 and your existing trans to get you started. Megasquirt gold box as the most affordable way to control it.

 

[68-500]

It shouldn’t cost a dime more to get an ecu for a 6.1 vs a 5.7. And if he was to get a 5.7 truck engine he has to change intake and front accessory drive so I have read. I doubt that a stock 904 will last long behind either Hemi. Didn’t the Nag1 trans come behind the 6.1? If so I would search for a factory harness and have it converted to stand alone.

 

[furious70]

Truck fits better based on my own in car mock ups.
6.1's come with a premium and special parts. Not what I would do importing. 5.7 with a 392 cam makes similar power if you want.
Nag1 controller is north of $1k for the electronics.

 

[70chall440]

A 904 can withstand a street G3 hemi if it is built correctly, many drag racers have and do use them with engines north of 400HP. To that point is not hard to get them to take the power plus parts are available.

In this case it means not having to cut the floor, modify the shifter, add a controller, etc. The hardest part will be the kickdown linkage, but that has already been done as well.

 

[68-500]

Guys I read the original post as if he had the 6.1/Nag1 combo already. After re-reading I realize he is still in the process of searching for engine/trans.

 

[chesk]

Ok, então você veio aqui para fazer algumas perguntas com a premissa de ser "baixo custo". Odeio dizer isso, mas Mopar (especialmente as trocas do G3 Hemi) e baixo custo não combinam.

Entendo que você tem que importar tudo, e é por isso que sugeri que você usasse a transmissão que já tem e comprasse um 5.7, porque você pode basicamente comprar um motor novo ou de baixa quilometragem (antes da importação) por US$ 3 mil, sem mencionar que as peças para 5.7 estão facilmente disponíveis (suspeito que alguns países sul-americanos estejam importando caminhonetes Ram com 5.7, o que pode facilitar a disponibilidade).

É claro que você já tem um plano em mente: coloque o 6.1 e o NAG1 no seu 68. Se sim, quais perguntas permanecem? É possível fazer isso de forma barata? Depende da sua definição de barato ou baixo custo. Sempre há maneiras mais baratas de fazer algo, mas tudo se resume a tempo versus dinheiro versus confiabilidade. Algumas coisas você terá que comprar/fabricar/descobrir;

Suportes de motor
Coletores/coletores de escape
ECU
Distância ao solo para o NAG1
TCM para o NAG1
Fiação atualizada para suportar a eletrônica G3
Eixo de transmissão
Shifter e/ou modificações de shifter para trabalhar com o NAG1
Membro transversal para o NAG1
Sistema de refrigeração
Novo sistema de combustível para dar suporte ao G3
Cerca de mais 1000 pequenas questões que irão se desenvolver

Você definitivamente pode fazer isso, mas não será barato. Pode ser "mais barato" do que comprar tudo se você fizer todo o trabalho sozinho, mas mesmo assim não será barato, principalmente porque você tem que importar quase tudo.

Boa sorte e lembre-se de se divertir

Yes, I understand. Nothing will be cheap. But my only concern is not having to buy a 3k wire harness and PCM kit.
Can I use my HP Tuner and tune the PCM? Can I redo my wire harnesses myself like I do with the LS engine?
I can handle the metal fabrication and adaptation. My question is about the electrical part.

 

[chesk]

Guys I read the original post as if he had the 6.1/Nag1 combo already. After re-reading I realize he is still in the process of searching for engine/trans.

That's it,
I'm about to buy a 6.1 and NAG1 set
but the seller also offered to sell only the 6.1

 

[furious70]

Dig up the build threads by former member Dante. He tried to do it all with the OEM controllers and working the wiring himself. Did not work well.
Hotwire.com harness is almost as much as Holley controller

 

[chesk]

Good part of 6.1 Hemi is no VVT and if on a budget can be converter to run with a carb and just an ignition system so don't really need an EFI computer.
The NAG1 seems like alot of trouble at this point. If staying with the EFI computer stuff, maybe check if Holley Terminator is supporting the transmission yet?

That's right, 6.1 without VVT and MDS like in the 5.7, which means less problems. Thinking about a 46RH transmission, I read that they are without electronics and with an overdrive. I just want to avoid buying a standalone PCM/wire harness kit for 3k. If there's a way for me to use the wire harness and stock PCM and modify it myself, I will do it. I just need to know if it's possible? Is there a DIY for this?

 

[70chall440]

That's right, 6.1 without VVT and MDS like in the 5.7, which means less problems. Thinking about a 46RH transmission, I read that they are without electronics and with an overdrive. I just want to avoid buying a standalone PCM/wire harness kit for 3k. If there's a way for me to use the wire harness and stock PCM and modify it myself, I will do it. I just need to know if it's possible? Is there a DIY for this?

I guess anything is possible. I know that you can use a stock harness and modify it to suit (a lot of work with mixed results). Look up Hemi.com and as stated there are threads on here as well probably every A, B and E body forum.

The PCM is the issue and no you cannot tune with the Holley software (if that was what you were asking). There are companies that will unlock and reflash a stock PCM (Google is your friend here) but again with mixed results. The main problem going this route IMO is that you are stuck with what you get meaning that I do not think a reflashed stock PCM is tunable at the user level.

You need to check out Hotwire, they have a controller for a NAG1 for $275 COMPUTERS

 

[chesk]

What if I just buy the 6.1 without the NAG1 and buy a 5-45RFE? Use the PCM, accelerator pedal, and wire harness from the 5.7? Anyway, the 6.1 I'm buying is missing the PCM and accelerator pedal. That would make things more economical, wouldn't it? I can also get a 727 here in Paraguay, but it needs to be rebuilt.