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8-3/4 Rear Performance Limits

I bought my '65 Coronet with it's 426W 4 speed and broken 8 3/4, two broken 4 speeds. I switched to a 727 since I knew I couldn't drive a 4 spd. The 8 3/4 was ok but I broke it. Went to a Dana never looked back. Just say"in.

Edit: I did fix the broken 8 3/4 that came with the '65, but broke it again. The limited slip case bolts would loosen up, needed new bolts and Loctite. Didn't realize that at the time.
Should have mentioned the passenger side axle had badly twisted splined too. A used axle from the salvage yard went in. Later exploded the driveshaft in the traps, Wrecked the 727, bought the Dana 60, 4 series limited slip, later went to the spool. Never broke any Dana parts.
 
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My auto 68 Charger broke the 8 3/4 on the 1st hit with drag radials, my old 68 GTS 383 auto broke one, my buddy has a 68 Roadrunner & mild 440 4 speed, has broke 4 , no more 8 3/4's for me, I now have a S60 in the Charger
 
I'm definitely not putting more money into the 8-3/4 I have. The old sure grip and axles are going back in for now.
There's a roller I have my eye on...
 
A lot of guys down play the ability of the 83/4. It’s actually stronger in stock form then a 9” Ford. Build a custom housing and parts like a 9” it will be equal or even stronger. Yes Dana 60 even stock form pretty hard to beat but at 60lbs heavier. Cost wise it’s all comparable now.
 
It’s actually stronger in stock form then a 9” Ford.

Not quite. The Ford 9" gets a lot of its strength due to the addition of the lower pinion bearing. That is something that the 8 3/4" rear does not have. And yes, the Dana 60 is just built bigger and stronger than the 8 3/4 hence the weight difference.
 
A Dana 60 will live a very long time in a 600HP 3500# car. In a light car who knows. A spool and good axles make it pretty much unbreakable.
 
741, 742, 489 and the various sure grip units all have there pros and cons. some are stronger than a ford 9 in some ways and some ways not. There is 3 different pinion stem sizes and bearings or carrier bearings sizes all differ between sure grip units. You have the Power loc or the Borg warner set ups all have there strong points and weak points. very hard to just say a ford 9 is stronger than a chrysler 8 3/4 or vise versa.
 
A lot of guys down play the ability of the 83/4. It’s actually stronger in stock form then a 9” Ford. Build a custom housing and parts like a 9” it will be equal or even stronger. Yes Dana 60 even stock form pretty hard to beat but at 60lbs heavier. Cost wise it’s all comparable now.

I wouldn't say a stock 8 3/4 is stronger than a stock 9" Ford. Seem about the same. The 9" got it's popularity in drag racing only after all the aftermarket got added to it.
A Dana 60 is just plain brute force stronger, even though heavier. The 8 3/4 & 9" both have the advantage of the drop out pumpkin for gear changes, if you can afford multiple pumpkins.
Gear changes in a Dana are more difficult, once you get the method down, no problem.
 
Might end up swapping my newly rebuilt 4.11 Sure grip 8-3/4 before I destroy it in my charger with a transbrake 727.
 
That isn't the only issue. The Dana rear end has a much more limited gear selection available for it than the Ford nine inch.

True, but the Dana 60 has enough.

Edit: My first Dana was a 5.13 DC gear, later switched to a 4.88 when trap speeds got higher. Close enough for a dumb bracket racer.
 
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It's worth a lot more money intact, than "disassembled".
yep, I wasted $1500 building my 8 3/4 & I knew better but was in denial LOL, 1st hit with good tires & it was toast, should have put that money towards a d60 I was half way there :)
 
I'm not a brake guy, but I did build a Griner brake 727 in my Arrow, just decided I didn't like it, was a foot brake guy. I'd be very concerned about the durability of a 8 3/4" behind a brake trans. Just my opinion, no direct experience. Again I became a Dana 60 guy and never broke one, thousands of runs in my '65 Coronet 10.50 car and 9.30 Arrow. Just say'n.
 
In my humble opinion, anybody that busts up an 8 3/4 with a stick, and then puts any money into another 8 3/4 is foolishly throwing good money after bad. Time for a 60 or a nine.(you can put a nine in without a single Ford part in it. Call it a "strange nine" or whatever).
I have nines in a couple cars (foreign cars with c-word V8s) but I will put a strange 60 in my mopar.
 
Andrew Starr used to be Hilborn's EFI injection specialist. He was registered for the 2016 Drag Week, but his 565" '56 Chev had a problem...it's Hays Dragon Claw dual disc clutch was hitting his G-Force GF5R transmission so hard that it ripped the teeth off several Dana 60 gearsets after just a few passes. A couple days before he was scheduled to leave for that first race in Columbus, Andrew decided to calm that clutch down with one of my ClutchTamers.

Shortly after completing that Drag Week with a 2nd place finish and no more broken drivetrain parts, an extremely happy Andrew called to let me know that my ClutchTamer had saved his Dragweek! The point i'm trying to make is that even a D60 will break when the clutch hit is excessive.

But with a properly softened hit, you might be surprised at how much stick shift power you can get thru even the weakest flavor of 8.75. My personal car has an 8.5 10 bolt chev, TruTrac, 28spl axles, 2.5" x .065" driveshaft and dead hooking drag radials. It was 5.73 with a 1.30 60' 10 years ago, even more power today. Only problem I've ever had is back in 2013 when I removed the ClutchTamer to do a back to back with/without test. Here's the instant result of the without test, Ram 10.5 900 series disc with a 2800lb PP...

7 05 2013.JPG


I pushed the car outside the track's gate and had one of my kids come pick me up. Went home and built an identical 2.5" x .065" driveshaft, then had him drive me back to the track so I could drive the car home @ 3 in the morning. Since then several clutch combinations have passed thru the bellhousing, all the way up to 800ftlb capacity full face solid hub sintered iron. I have the parts on hand to make an .083" shaft when the time comes, but that same .065" replacement driveshaft from 8 years ago is staying in just to see how far we can take it. I rarely even mention the driveshaft when referring to the car, as it tends to raise BS flags.

Grant
 
I have to admit that I don't know much about clutches except for what I've read in rags and on-line but it makes sense about a clutch hitting too hard but I do know that even a stock clutch in a heavy car launching at 4k is taxing the 8 3/4 and a 'high performance' clutch is probably going to break it. One problem is as far as I know anymore is that 'pro' gears are not available for them and hasn't been for many years now. Pro gears are softer than the hardened street gears (think longevity) and can take the shock loading better than the street gears can. A buddy and I learned that in the early 80's after shaving teeth in 3 different gears while racing a stick car launching at 6k and running in high 10's. The car weighed in the low 3k range but that didn't matter. A 60 cured that problem. Can't remember the clutch that was being used at the time and I'm not about to call him since it'll be at least a 1 hour call lol
 
Here's something I wrote a while back regarding transmissions, but it largely applies to rearends as well...

I'm curious just how many stick shift drag racers subscribe to the conventional wisdom that says adding weight makes a transmission more likely to break when the engine torque side of the equation remains the same?

My view is the only way weight makes a difference is if wheelspeed is part of your setup. Adding weight typically equals more weight on the tire, requiring you to hit that tire harder with inertia to get the wheelspeed you need, which in-turn means the transmission will then see a higher peak load as a result. But all that changes when you install a clutch hit controller, as the goal with a clutch hit controller is not controlled wheelspin, but instead controlling the rate that the clutch draws the engine down against WOT. Since a heavier car accelerates at a slower rate, it's clutch will also need to draw the engine down at a slower rate to keep rpm in it's optimum range.

Here's a crude theoretical comparison based on Wallace calculator "ideal" numbers. One 3500lbs and the other 2500lbs, both with the same 620whp. Wallace says the 3500lb car runs 10.00 @ 132.5 with a 1.39 60', while the 2500lb car runs 8.95 @ 148.04 with a 1.24 60'. Both have same tires, same 1st gear, and both geared for 7500 at the stripe- 4.72 gear for the 3500lb car and 4.22 gear for the 2500lb car. Both are also using clutch hit controllers tuned for a 7500 hit that draws down to 5500 before the clutch locks up. Based on averaged acceleration rates over the first 60' of each car, the 3500lb car takes 0.81sec to draw 2000rpm worth of inertia, while the 2500lb car accelerates quicker and takes only 0.755sec to draw the same 2000rpm of inertia. The heavier car spreads the same inertia draw over a longer time period, which in-turn effectively reduces the peak impact value of the inertia that gets passed along to the input shaft.

A key thing to note is that although both cars in the above example have the same 620whp and transmission, rear gears are different to achieve the same 7500 at the stripe-
4.72 for the 3500lb car that goes 132mph
4.22 for the 2500lb car that goes 148mph

If one were simply increasing weight with the same rear gearing, then conventional wisdom would apply. But when you gear for the stripe as drag racers do, the heavier/slower car gets more rear gear which in-turn decreases load on the transmission. When you remove wheelspeed from the stick shift launch equation, in-turn allowing both clutches to be tuned to draw the same amount of inertia, that conventional wisdom goes right out the window.

Grant
 
I have to admit that I don't know much about clutches except for what I've read in rags and on-line but it makes sense about a clutch hitting too hard but I do know that even a stock clutch in a heavy car launching at 4k is taxing the 8 3/4 and a 'high performance' clutch is probably going to break it. One problem is as far as I know anymore is that 'pro' gears are not available for them and hasn't been for many years now. Pro gears are softer than the hardened street gears (think longevity) and can take the shock loading better than the street gears can. A buddy and I learned that in the early 80's after shaving teeth in 3 different gears while racing a stick car launching at 6k and running in high 10's. The car weighed in the low 3k range but that didn't matter. A 60 cured that problem. Can't remember the clutch that was being used at the time and I'm not about to call him since it'll be at least a 1 hour call lol
I wonder if that rational was behind the reduction from 11" to 10 1/2" in clutch size from 1969 to 1970.
 
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