• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

about That car....

What part of "no involvement" do you not understand?


I hear your statement. You are not involved. A statement like that is a big blanket. It is so big as to not move us forward.

So ok you are not involved. You however seem to be in a position with connections that could be of great help to many of us that just want to know about the world of vin tag reproduction and how it works these days.

If sharing some of what you know can get you in trouble we can get that.
One thing you showed us is a tag you have that you are adding to your car build. It is a great example for the questions. That it has a number sequence so odd that it must be fake is not helpful to the questions we have.

I suspect that state regulations about this vary. (not to mention any federal regulations)

You can help us with this topic or you can dodge it or you might have some questions of your own about it.

In all the stuff I have read in these threads I don't recall anyone -directly- accusing you of being a crook. But you are showing us over and over how much you have learned and brag about your connections.

The "VIN tag" questions (as I see it) are the big deal here.
 
Last edited:
you are pinning all this hoopla and story on this one Young mail clerk,
when everyone else who was even remotely connected to design has said there was NEVER a 4 door cuda!!

I've provided what Roger Johnson, Larry Saunders and Sonny Benson have stated about the topic. That's all. You guys continue to act belligerent because I do not just roll over, accuse those guys of being liars and accepting the OPINIONS given to you by your cronies.

I don't know why you continue to keep pounding the same beaten points. Believe whatever you want. I'll believe what I want. There's no harm done either way. If Chrysler built a 4 Door Barracuda or a Concept Rocket Ship scheduled to go to Mars, it's no skin off my back. I really don't care. If you have notice, I've never ridiculed or criticized you guys for the position you have taken because I respect how others feel. I may get defensive but I never go on the offensive to attack you guys. Just like the rest of you posting here, I'll decide what I do and the way I do it. Think about that the next time someone ridicules and mocks you for not accepting their point of view.
 
ESC is NOT making/stamping vin tags,so why bust HIS shoes about that. I like the fact that we have an "X" Chrysler guy here sharing info and taking on the tough task of recreating a car that should have been produced.
There are way too many keyboard jockys with ALI-*** names flinging mud and many of them don't even have a car,,,,,,,,,,,,
In case you can't tell,I admire ESC. Not only for what he's done in the past,present and future,but for the vast knowledge he has yet to share.
 
Never said I wasn't involved. What kind of rediculous statement is that?


"What part of "no involvement" do you not understand?"

This could be confusing.

Is it kinda like you tried it but you didn't inhale?
Or you did not have sex with that car?
 
Last edited:
This is exactly why I didn't want to discuss the VIN information which is no one's business but mine. You guys start dreaming up falsehoods based on whatever incorrect knowledge you think is correct and repeat it as if you know what's actually taking place. You're wrong about the "Missouri" Title and wrong about Chrysler allowing or being involved. They have no involvement with what is being built.

Here you go genius. It was in reference to what I said earlier. I suggest you keep track of the progression of the topic instead of blindly commenting. The reference to "no involvement" was pertaining to Chrysler, not me. Can you comprehend what's going on now?
 
ESC is NOT making/stamping vin tags,so why bust HIS shoes about that. I like the fact that we have an "X" Chrysler guy here sharing info and taking on the tough task of recreating a car that should have been produced.
There are way too many keyboard jockys with ALI-*** names flinging mud and many of them don't even have a car,,,,,,,,,,,,
In case you can't tell,I admire ESC. Not only for what he's done in the past,present and future,but for the vast knowledge he has yet to share.

Thanks for your support.
 
In all the stuff I have read in these threads I don't recall anyone -directly- accusing you of being a crook. But you are showing us over and over how much you have learned and brag about your connections.

Then don't ask me anymore questions. When I tell you why I'm able to do the things I do, you accuse me of bragging. When I refuse to answer for other people or businesses, you accuse me of side stepping the topic. I'll answer for me and no one else. I have done nothing wrong. Half of you commenting probably represent the criminals you talk about and would love for me to tell you how to scam the system. If I told you I am willing to make you guys Broadcast Sheets, VIN plates or Fender Tags you would be ringing my phone off the hook trying to get one. Of course you would make sure to let me know that YOU are not doing the things that the OTHER guys are doing when wanting to obtain them.

Unless you're building a "phony" car, why are you so obsessed with how to falsify things? If you feel that strongly about what I am doing, pick up your phone, dial Chrysler's number and report me instead of wasting your time typing your erroneous observations in this thread. It's that simple.
 
Last edited:
----I will try to keep up.----
I am just a reader that has a passion about history when it comes to the cars I grew up with.
I just sold a car I had for 36 years. The history of that car was everything to the buyer. Every correct/original detail of the car and it's history were a part of the transaction.
This is what I see as most important for the long term future of the cars left. Especially ones that are examples and representative of small production and sought after qualities/options. I can see a time coming when the price/value of these cars get so diluted from lost history and identification that they just all blend in as one of those old cars.

Telling stories, making clone cars, and looking for top (current) dollar are a part of the hobby market that is not where my interest is.

What is of interest to me is hanging on to the last bits and scraps of what we have left that tell an old cars history.

If/when a great car shows up with a fabricated vin tag (fabricated history) It will become known.
All collector cars will be diminished in value in the public eye as it becomes common knowledge. Buyers will be put off because of the identification difficulties.

So I vent/rant----Bogas VIN tags will and have been made. If this topic stays open it might delay the devaluation of our cars some.
 
What is of interest to me is hanging on to the last bits and scraps of what we have left that tell an old cars history.

If/when a great car shows up with a fabricated vin tag (fabricated history) It will become known.
All collector cars will be diminished in value in the public eye as it becomes common knowledge. Buyers will be put off because of the identification difficulties.

Are you sure we're talking about the same car? I'm talking about the most far fetched, non-existent car ever to be custom built. It is a 4 Door Barracuda that was never made or offered to the public. It has been completely exposed to the Automotive World for everyone to witness and see it's non-existent presence. It is so unorthodox and non-existent that someone would have to be a zombie or a crazy to not understand its non-existent status. That's the Car I'm talking about.
 
Are you sure we're talking about the same car? I'm talking about the most far fetched, non-existent car ever to be custom built. It is a 4 Door Barracuda that was never made or offered to the public. It has been completely exposed to the Automotive World for everyone to witness and see it's non-existent presence. It is so unorthodox and non-existent that someone would have to be a zombie or a crazy to not understand its non-existent status. That's the Car I'm talking about.

I get that you are living with your car project and might think it is the big/only issue being discussed.
Granted the thread title is "about that car..."

Perhaps you need to keep up with the conversation.
I can see how you might think I was talking about your car project.--I was not--Sorry for the mislead. (It (your car) already has to much history here to ever be a future issue about where/how/and why it was born).
If you reread my post and forget about your car for a moment it might make some sense.

There are two threads about your car going and the bulk of conversation lately has been about documentation in general and fake Vin tags/broadcast sheets,etc.

I believe (and you imply) that you know about that stuff. ---(your car project aside)---You can help us with your knowledge.--Or not??__
 
Last edited:
im just curious as to which way it really is.

I could be mistaken in what Dave refers to this vehicle as. I might have used the wrong word and if I did, I apologize. Tribute, concept, whatever Dave wants to call this car. I am not the builder so I don't get to put an official name to it.
 
You can help us with your knowledge.

I've tried but I continuously get hammered. I too own some very unique/rare "high dollar" Chrysler Cars. I can assure you that I'm not out to harm my own or anyone else's best interests. Someone asked me if I do VIN related products out of necessity or just to make money. That was an odd thing to ask but I'll try to answer. While this has become my full time occupation, I never intended on it becoming a Career. I had a very good position running a Company and making a good living. Things started in 1997 when I needed a few "correct" decals for my Boss 302. I decided to make them myself. I didn't do it with starting a Company in mind. After I made a few decal variations, people starting asking If I would make them some. I would barter my decals for small parts that I needed for my Mustang restoration. Then I bought a Hemi Cuda and found the same dilemma with incorrect decals. They were not correct so I started making them for that Car. Things kept growing. Roger Gibson called one day and asked if I could make a VIN decal for one of his vehicles. I didn't know if I could but gave it a try. It worked and they became part of my portfolio. Daniel Banker got one from me (may God rest his soul) and put it on Moparts for everyone to see. Things blew up almost overnight. I started receiving calls from Canada asking if I could make modern day VIN's and the demand became so over-whelming that I started doing them too. It took 4.5 years of intense effort to get approval to make them. At one particular time, every one of the various Manufacturers said they would "never" approve anyone to reproduce them. Then came the Exhaust Systems and RPM and Ammo and on and on. Every aspect of my Company started from personal needs and grew from there. When I look back, the journey was anti-climatic because I never realized at the time that I was starting a business. ECS is the acronym for the first initials of my Children's names........Erin-Conner-Sarah.

The point is that I am nothing more than a Car Enthusiast that was fortunate/lucky enough to make things work for me. Don't get me wrong, it has taken a tremendous amount of effort, investment and hard work. I remember how hard it was to obtain correct reproduction parts so I vowed to do the very best I could for all the other people (just like me) who was tired of dealing with garbage parts. I do not compromise my integrity for financial gain. I do my best I can do to help the Industry and everything seems to fall into place. Years ago, a guy involved with the "fake" 1971 white Hemi Cuda Convertible called and offered me $50,000 to make him a "fake" Broadcast Sheet and a VIN decal so he could have a Fender Tag and VIN tag made for the car. I said no! If he would have offered a million dollars I would not have done it. When you do the right things you don't have to constantly be on the look out for someone knocking at your door to accuse you of a wrong doing. Besides, doing the right thing is the right thing to do, in everything you do. That's a brief history of how things happened for me in this Industry.

I don't have a picture to prove any of it but I hope you'll take my word for it!
 
Last edited:
I didn't write any of that letter I received as an email.

I got it the other day from someone I don't even know.
But, I can see the guys reasoning how a mail boy could see
an early mock-up prototype of a 1971 b body 4 dr. and think it was a cuda 4 dr.

So you are posting something for someone who you can't substantiate, don't even know who or where it came from, and essentially sticking out your neck for them? I'd at least be a bit puzzled as to why or who even sent me this email being that I don't know them. Be thankful it wasn't a virus attached to it!
 
ECS I appreciate and thank you for your response to my posts.
 
Last edited:
If you have notice, I've never ridiculed or criticized you guys for the position you have taken because I respect how others feel. I may get defensive but I never go on the offensive to attack you guys..
...my Pm box begs to differ sir...
however,that was Then and this is Now,so moving along....

i liked post 114 a lot.
thanks for taking the time to share some of your history with us.
 
Got this email yesterday. Interesting observation and reasoning.

The 4-door Barracuda story was a lie. It was really stupid. People fact check stuff these days, and many people who worked at Chrysler in 1969 are still alive so you have to wonder why he thought he could get this story past the guys who actually worked there.

First of all, there was never a 1970 Barracuda 4-Door model sanctioned, commissioned, designed, or built by Chrysler Corporation. No Chrysler built 1970 Barracuda 4-door has ever existed on this planet in any shape, form, not even as hologram.

There could have been a somewhat similar vehicle, representing a "similar shape" as maybe, perhaps, a four door Barracuda, that could have been mis-identified as such. The only car at that time, that could possibly this description would be the 1971 Satellite 4-door sedan - in some early form of prototype development or a crude roadable buck. Remember this was the fall of 1969, less than a year before 1971 production, and several months before the first pilot cars.


I've also been working on ECS/Roger Johnson's "loading dock" story that states the car sat outside for two days, in a general area for everyone to see. Yet nobody else at Chrysler remembers seeing it. This gives more credibility to the fact of a 1971 Satellite 4-door sedan in the later stages of development. Not too many people would consider something like majorly important, especially given the fact this was the engineering complex. But it could be important to some inter-company mail-delivery person, who's route normally would not give them access to restricted areas. For such a person, the first glimpse of a new 1971 body style would probably could be interesting.


Here's one of Roger Johnson Quotes":


"The car I saw was a red 4-door hardtop Barracuda. It sat on a concrete platform behind one of the main office buildings in the center of Chrysler’s Highland Park facility. This was a spot where odd cars showed up routinely, so I always looked for them".


That part may have been true. Chrysler routinely purchased competitive make cars for teardown analysis and review. These cars were disassembled for assembly method studies and component testing... and then completely measured from tip to tail. Even the curvature of the glass and sheet metal was recorded...but that's another story. It does however explain this quote from Roger Johnson.


"I walked through this area of the complex twice every day. I have seen a new Corvette up there, a 1970 Datsun 240Z and even a Mercury Capri of the same year" "Naturally when a 4-door E-body showed up, it caught my eye. It sat in the same spot for at least 2 days, more likely three"


Well that could be a possibility. Its logical that a prototype model, especially an (all new for 1971 design) could've been parked in the same area for completive testing - even in rough form. The 1971 Plymouth Satellite shares some similar proportions to the E-body, and like I said, in rough form, could be slightly confused as a Barracuda. Just a hypothesis here....but there's an outside chance, it could have actually worn a 1970 Barracuda grille - IF- it was being used as a roadable buck (in some form or fashion). It might likely be cobbled up to fit the fender and hood opening, but it's a possible scenario in late 1969, many months before the start of production, that a 1971 grille would simply not yet be available.


Roger Johnson states "The Barracuda appeared to be drivable from my view of about fifty feet away. But, it may have just been a body-buck. On the other hand, it was wearing regular Barracuda wheels and normal size tires. I realize they never produced such a car. I always figured it was just an experiment in concepts"


There's no chance, not even remotely possible, that this "thing" Roger Johnson claims he saw was a clay mock up (or body buck), or whatever he thinks it was. A clay buck would never be placed outside in the environment for very long. They traveled on skids (remember they weighed an enormous amount) and the wheels, tires, and axles were just there for looks. They mostly traveled indoors and there's really no good reason for a clay buck to be outdoors unless they wanted to photograph it, or see it outside for some reason.


Since clay bucks didn't travel, there's really no reason for it to be on a "loading dock". This is more likely a very early roadable buck, or rough prototype 1971 Satellite 4-door.... like I said before.


Furthermore, no experimental car made from fiberglass or clay would be sitting outside for any prolonged amount of time to risk the chance of a rain shower or prolonged sun exposure. The clay room would have had its own loading docks (for supplies obviously), and this wasn't the place where roger Johnson described.


Roger Johnson saw a 1971 Plymouth Satellite 4-Door Sedan. Period.
 
...my Pm box begs to differ sir...
however,that was Then and this is Now,so moving along....

i liked post 114 a lot.
thanks for taking the time to share some of your history with us.

You have to admit that whatever PM I sent was in RESPONSE to whatever you sent me. I am pretty laid back most of the time. I never claimed that I was too nice after being kicked in the shins. I will apologize if I ever was too pointed and I certainly appreciate the civil dialog between us. Thanks for your kind response!
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top