Another Run to See a Roadrunner

[noz34me]

Went to look today at another Roadrunner, a '74 with a 318 and automatic.

The Good:

1. All body seams look even and nice- -even better than the (95%) one I looked at last week.
2. Genuine Roadrunner Steering wheel in place and in perfect condition
3. Door Panels in good shape
4. Rockers look to be in good shape some rust but not through.
5. Looks like car was originally beige or close to it, painted black but was probably a decent color change when it was done.
6. All the glass appears to be in decent shape.
7. Seats are all there. It's a bucket seat slap stick car.
8. Dash, although kind of rough is complete and stock with radio, knobs, dials, gauges etc. It's a rallye gauge pack(full instrumentation, but no tach) It has the clock where the tach belongs.
9. Trunk pan and floor pans appear solid although with surface rust.
10. Around front and rear windows is near perfect; none of the usual rust around the trim that I've seen on so many. There is one rusty spot at right rear bottom corner of window.
11. Passenger compartment appears to still be watertight.

The Bad:

1. After being told they would charge the battery so I could start it, when I arrive no battery, and told it wouldn't take a charge.
2. Could not get passenger door open, and not sure why, I guess the operating mechanism is not disengaging from the latch.
3. Putty along the drip rails on both sides of car is cracked and coming loose.
4. Car is completely stock, so would have to assume there will be brake and suspension parts that need replacing. Last on the road 2 years ago.

The Ugly:

1. Quarters and fenders all have significant rust through
2. RH rear wheel well has a hole into the trunk that well you couldn't throw a cat through it, but a 12 year old fist would probably fit
3. Interior needs a complete and thorough re-do. I want to change it to black anyhow. Dash pad is cracked so bad it's unrepairable- -
4. There is, I don't know how to describe it other than a "tear" in the sheet metal right at the RH sail panel. Possibly with a full quarter replacement it would be replaced anyhow. Looks to me like some bondo work that experienced temperature differentials that cause it to crack. Ugly, Ugly, and I 've never seen anything quite like that.
5. The whole bottom side is rusted, although not rusted through. Looks like it needs a good media blasting, which of course may expose some other issues.

So, to summarize, Black '74 Roadrunner, 318 Auto with slapstick and bucket seats. Was beige or gold, beige interior pieces, didn't even look at the miles because I would be having the drivetrain rebuilt.

My plan would be to have the body/suspension/drivetrain work done by shop/s. I can handle the interior as well as any electrical problems.

So given the above, what would you guys offer for it? They're asking $3K.

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

I would say keep looking. You, like myself , are stuck on the east coast and have to sort through a lot of rust buckets to find a nice project. If you bought the car for say $500, the work you plan on farming out will be around 8-10K, minimum, assuming you don't get carried away on body and paint. For that kind of money, there is a nice driver out there with your name on it. Even if you found one out west and paid a $1000 to have it shipped back, you would still be ahead. Restoration costs will be about the same for a 74 RR or a 68/69 RR with the difference being there is a whole lot more repop parts available for the earlier cars. You would need to buy NOS stuff, if you can find it, and will pay dearly for it. When it is all said and done the 74 won't be worth a third of a 68/69 car. If you want a nice 74, find one that you won't have to sink a lot of money into. Pay up front for a nice, low mileage car without a lot of body issues. Good luck with your search, check out this site for later B-bodies

http://moparfan.com/showthread.php?tid=279

 

[TS5064]

half the stuff for sale are total rust buckets and the people think they are gold. i wouldn't give over $1500 for it.

 

[noz34me]

half the stuff for sale are total rust buckets and the people think they are gold. i wouldn't give over $1500 for it.

I know these guys (father and son) are negotiable, just they are insisting I put a price out there. I didn't at the time, because a. I didn't want to piss them off, and b. I didn't really know what it was worth. I figured $500 to $1500- -

Talked to a guy I know with a body shop. He said the first thing to do was pull the drivetrain, then get everything media blasted. After that, we could see what was actually there. He also recommended I look for a completely restored one with the owner in trouble (like divorce). He said I will never get my money out of a restoration unless I do it myself, over a period of many years, and just don't count my labor as worth anything.

He said he's not in the habit of turning away work, but he wanted to level with me.

 

[ramairthree]

If all the engine, tranny, etc. match and are original, that may bring it over 2K, but a lot of work for a car that is not going to be worth a fortune if you dump a fortune into it.

Any cool fender tag options?

I paid 3K for a running, driving, stopping 74RR (NOT road worthy) with 73 satty interior and something buckets in ratty shape, needing headliner, winshield, a couple of pieces of trim, NOM (318 also), etc. etc. in gray primer. A shame it was a 318/904 car, probably why it was about to get parted or crushed - it had lots of cool options. A non-sunroof car equal in every other may I figure may have been 2 to 2.5K. Floor boards and underside solid as could be.

RM21:
Plymouth Belvedere,Satellite
Medium, Road Runner
2 Door Coupe

G4G: 318 150HP(net) or 170HP(net) 1-2BBL 8 CYL
1974
St. Louis, MO, US

E44: 318 cid 2 barrel D34:
Light Duty Automatic Transmission 904
TX9: Black Exterior Color
DCX9: Trim - Luxury, Unknown, Black
000: Full Door Panels- not sure what this meansA12:

TX9: Black Top Color
U: USA Specifications
A88: Interior Decor Group
B41: Front Disc Brakes w/Standard 10in RR Drum
C16: Console w/Woodgrain Panel
C56: Bucket Seats

G54: Outside LH Remote Chrome Racing Mirror
G64: Outside RH Manual Chrome Racing Mirror
G74: Dual Chrome Racing Mirrors
H51: Air Conditioning with Heater
J54: Sport Hood
M52: SUNROOF
N41: Dual Exhaust
N42: Chrome Exhaust Tips
R11: Radio Solid State AM (2 Watts)
V8R: Tranverse Stripes, Red
V9R: Red Hood Stripes

28: Heavy Duty 28 inch Radiator
END: End of Sales Codes

 

[Bruzilla]

Take a pass on this car unless they'll sell it to you for parts for a couple hundred. I've seen the tear you mention. It's the result of the car sustaining severe damage in an accident at some point, and the frame becoming damaged and not repaired correctly. This puts unbalanced forces on the structure of the car, and eventually those forces cause a failure at the weakest point, which is usually at the sail panel. If you put new sheet metal there, it'll eventually tear as well, and you're looking at major bucks to fix the frame damage (not to mention any other stressed components you aren't seeing now). Also, someone selling a running car will beg, borrow, or steal a good battery to prove it runs. The "the battery's dead so we can't start it" dodge is a common one used by people who know that car either won't start or won't run well.

I just bought a road-ready 74 Roadrunner with about zero rust, a built-up 360, extra set of rally rims, new windshield and other parts, but rough interior, for $2,000. $3,000 should get you into a nice daily driver. A lot of people are thinking the 73/74 cars are going to be the next big thing, but the market for muscle cars has run its course and values are declining across the board, so 73/74 cars are not going to be going up in value.

 

[noz34me]

Take a pass on this car unless they'll sell it to you for parts for a couple hundred. I've seen the tear you mention. It's the result of the car sustaining severe damage in an accident at some point, and the frame becoming damaged and not repaired correctly. This puts unbalanced forces on the structure of the car, and eventually those forces cause a failure at the weakest point, which is usually at the sail panel. If you put new sheet metal there, it'll eventually tear as well, and you're looking at major bucks to fix the frame damage (not to mention any other stressed components you aren't seeing now). Also, someone selling a running car will beg, borrow, or steal a good battery to prove it runs. The "the battery's dead so we can't start it" dodge is a common one used by people who know that car either won't start or won't run well.

I just bought a road-ready 74 Roadrunner with about zero rust, a built-up 360, extra set of rally rims, new windshield and other parts, but rough interior, for $2,000. $3,000 should get you into a nice daily driver. A lot of people are thinking the 73/74 cars are going to be the next big thing, but the market for muscle cars has run its course and values are declining across the board, so 73/74 cars are not going to be going up in value.

Now THAT was enlightening! I just couldn't figure out (on my own) how exactly that could happen on the sail panel, when under it appeared fine!

 

[ramairthree]

a road ready 74 for 2K? You hit a fire sale.
And 3K for a daily driver?

Others chime in, but 2-3K for a road worthy 73/74 B-body that is mechanically sound is not the norm where I am and even in this economy.

Even in underpriced full sized cars, 3K for a reliable daily driver is a stretch.

 

[Bruzilla]

Now THAT was enlightening! I just couldn't figure out (on my own) how exactly that could happen on the sail panel, when under it appeared fine!

Your enlightment was cheaper than mine. I had a 73 with that tear, and tried to fix it first with bondo/fiberglass, and that failed very shortly afterwards. Then I put new sheet metal in, and it failed. That's when I took it to a body shop and got the bad news. The car died a quick death in 1987/88 after a hurricane went through the Tampa area and shot a phone pole through the rear quarter.

I also saw a 73 with that tear that was for sale for years by different owners in St. Mary's County, MD. It was yellow with a black interior. It would be for sale in a yard for a few weeks, then disappear until the new owner figured out the car was a basket case, then it would be for sale again, disappear, be for sale again, and on and on.

 

[Bruzilla]

a road ready 74 for 2K? You hit a fire sale.
And 3K for a daily driver?

Others chime in, but 2-3K for a road worthy 73/74 B-body that is mechanically sound is not the norm where I am and even in this economy.

Even in underpriced full sized cars, 3K for a reliable daily driver is a stretch.

Muscle car prices didn't make any appreciable jump until Black Monday back in October 1987. On that day the stock market took the first big hit since the depression, and it scared a lot of investors away from Wall Street. They needed a safe place to invest, and muscle cars were it. The Superbird that I passed on for $5,000 in 1985 when I was about to be stationed in Bermuda was already at $25,000 when I got back in 1988. What's key here is the prices weren't driven by supply/demand issues by collectors, but by investors.

If you've been tracking the auto auction market for the past couple of years, you've seen a steep dropoff in prices. The auction market was seen as the benchmark setter for prices as they went up, and I suspect it's going to continue to be the benchmark setter on the way down. The reason for the downturn is gold has become a much better avenue of investment than cars. It's value has been going up for three years now, and you don't need a garage to store it or need to do anything to maintain it. Gold investment is pulling a lot of investment revenues out of the collector car market and that's impacting it more than the bad economy is.

This shift in investing is great for those of us who are drivers first, but it's going to suck for guys who bought their cars at top dollar. These are the guys who have their cars for sale for months and months with nothing but low-ballers and tire kickers showing up and taking up their time. The car I bought was originally listed at $4,500 several months ago, and like others in the daily driver category at that price point, it would have sat and sat and sat, but this guy was smart enough to keep lowering his price until he found a buyer, me.

What's likely going to happen over the next few years is the owners who resist lowering their prices because they've paid tto much for their cars are going to take a bath because they're holding out for top dollar while guys like the fellow who sold me my car are snagging the buyers right now. If the guy wanting $25,000 for his nice but not perfect 73 down here in FL were to sell for $10,000 (a more realistic price), his car would be in my driveway right now. Instead he lost my business to a guy who had his car priced more accordingly. I'm seeing more and more nicer cars listing in the $3,000-$4,000 range than I've seen in decades, and they're selling while the cars priced above that are sitting and sitting no matter their condition or options.

 

[Randy73]

I paid $5k for 73 rallye w/340 a year ago and it had a rusted out floor pan and needed a new DS fender and grill, plus the suspension was shot and it needed all new wiring and new bumpers. tranny needs rebuilding and all new upper door panels and a bunch of odds and ends. Setting it right has cost me well over $4k and that is doing most of the work myself and that does not include paint, but I searched all over and have NEVER seen a driver for 2-3k and I searched the whole southeast and up into the midwest. I am just starting to see drivers for $3-4, but all have rust and need interior/wiring. I work in Birmingham and live in FL, if Atlanta is not to far search there, seems to be the cheapest place around for b-bodies.

 

[Bruzilla]

I just missed a really nice driver 74 RR that was in Lakeland, FL two years ago for $1,800. It had a 318/727, some class-typical rust on the lower-rear driver's door, and around the backlight; and the interior left a lot to be desired, but it was a pretty solid car.

The ad got posted on CL on a Wednesday. I contacted the owner that day and made arrangements to see it Saturday and it was gone that Friday.

I would expect a 340 car to be priced at or near what a 440 is priced at. It's a SB, but the panache of the 340 gives it a premium well and above other SBs or even 400 cars get.

 

[Bruzilla]

For those of you who think $3,000 is an impossible price for a nice B body, check out http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/2779291261.html

1973 Plymouth Satellite 86,*** miles only - $3000 (VA. Beach)

I have a 1973 plymouth satellite B-Body it has a 318 V8 2 Barrel carb all original only has 86,*** miles on it 2nd owner interor in near mint condition floor pans are solid been garage kept /////out side has no rust////// the top is still in great condition runs

&drives great starts at a turn of the key no leaks call for more info

James 757-236-6336////DO NOT GET TEXTING/////WILLING TO TRADE FOR 4 DOOR CAR MUST BE A AUTO NO STICK SHIFT //////PLEASE NO TIRE KICKERS//////PRICE IS NEG..

 

[noz34me]

For those of you who think $3,000 is an impossible price for a nice B body, check out http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/2779291261.html

1973 Plymouth Satellite 86,*** miles only - $3000 (VA. Beach)

I have a 1973 plymouth satellite B-Body it has a 318 V8 2 Barrel carb all original only has 86,*** miles on it 2nd owner interor in near mint condition floor pans are solid been garage kept /////out side has no rust////// the top is still in great condition runs

&drives great starts at a turn of the key no leaks call for more info

James 757-236-6336////DO NOT GET TEXTING/////WILLING TO TRADE FOR 4 DOOR CAR MUST BE A AUTO NO STICK SHIFT //////PLEASE NO TIRE KICKERS//////PRICE IS NEG..

Wife and I are headed there in about 10 days- - if it was only a RoadRunner.

 

[Bruzilla]

I wouldn't get hung up on the Roadrunner thing. The only reason that car is a Satellite and not a Roadrunner was a check box on a production sheet, and the only people who really care which box got checked are the DMV and someone who buys the car from you.

That's a super clean, rust free, low mile 1973 Satellite that you can build however you like and you don't have to pay $10k+ to get into, nor pay $5k+ to get the body right on. The economy is in the tank, car prices are dropping, and it's right after Christmas, which is the worst time of the year to sell a car. You could probably get this one for about $2,500 or less.

Plus, since you don't have to fret about messing up a Roadrunner, you can do whatever you like to this car. Put in some really nice AM bucket seats, get rid of that green interior and paint and go with something you like, get a 440 in there, and do it up right. Then when you're done, sell off all the parts you took off to the point counters who need them for their sancrosanct rides and you'll end up getting the car for a song.

 

[noz34me]

For those of you who think $3,000 is an impossible price for a nice B body, check out http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/2779291261.html

1973 Plymouth Satellite 86,*** miles only - $3000 (VA. Beach)

I have a 1973 plymouth satellite B-Body it has a 318 V8 2 Barrel carb all original only has 86,*** miles on it 2nd owner interor in near mint condition floor pans are solid been garage kept /////out side has no rust////// the top is still in great condition runs

&drives great starts at a turn of the key no leaks call for more info

James 757-236-6336////DO NOT GET TEXTING/////WILLING TO TRADE FOR 4 DOOR CAR MUST BE A AUTO NO STICK SHIFT //////PLEASE NO TIRE KICKERS//////PRICE IS NEG..

I called this guy; seemed pretty nice. Promised to send me more photos, never received. He also wanted whomever bought it to keep it original; specifically didn't want it turned into a Roadrunner! Oh well.

 

[jessipup]

Man that's nice. Last spring I bought a 74 with a body that good for 4k it only has 45000 on it. I'm not cloning mine but it's not a sat either. Mine has the RR bulge hood and that looks great. I just got done doing the wheels Cragar ss 15x8 all around with 245 in front and 275 in the rear. Boy howdy what a change. If the motor is tight I'd go for it. As far as what the guy wants to be done with it? If he keeps it he can do anything "HE" wants.
If you buy it you have bought the right to do what ever you want, Hell you could make it a hot air balloon for all the say he has. Mine was a sat sebring plus, so I am using all the best, or what I think are the best parts from both the sat and runner. And I'll tell ya it is Way cool with an understated class that will still be able to kick some ***. I am even going as far as to take all the badging off except for plymouth scripts and logos. I redid the dash and removed the sat emblem and replaced it with a new Plymouth one. I'm soon to rip off the vinyal and replace it just so I can weld shut the holes from the Sebering plus logo, all that will be left is the little plymouth tri star in red, white and blue and that I will send out and rechrome and have the painted areas filled in with a colored epoxy material. I did the hood buldge stripes but not the side and over the roof deal, I think the vinyal top looks much better
Some day when I can get pics to post I'll put them up.
With that platform you can have all the hotrod preformance and the high end trim using mostly if not all Mopar parts.
it is kind of like the car I wish they had built
I'd go for it

 

[Bruzilla]

I called this guy; seemed pretty nice. Promised to send me more photos, never received. He also wanted whomever bought it to keep it original; specifically didn't want it turned into a Roadrunner! Oh well.

LOL I would tell him "that's great because I'm looking to do a as-new resto on a car, so no problem." Believe me, once you get the green car and he gets the green money, he's going to forget about that car quick. He gets his money, you get your roadrunner.

 

[Bruzilla]

Man that's nice. Last spring I bought a 74 with a body that good for 4k it only has 45000 on it. I'm not cloning mine but it's not a sat either. Mine has the RR bulge hood and that looks great. I just got done doing the wheels Cragar ss 15x8 all around with 245 in front and 275 in the rear. Boy howdy what a change. If the motor is tight I'd go for it. As far as what the guy wants to be done with it? If he keeps it he can do anything "HE" wants.
If you buy it you have bought the right to do what ever you want, Hell you could make it a hot air balloon for all the say he has. Mine was a sat sebring plus, so I am using all the best, or what I think are the best parts from both the sat and runner. And I'll tell ya it is Way cool with an understated class that will still be able to kick some ***. I am even going as far as to take all the badging off except for plymouth scripts and logos. I redid the dash and removed the sat emblem and replaced it with a new Plymouth one. I'm soon to rip off the vinyal and replace it just so I can weld shut the holes from the Sebering plus logo, all that will be left is the little plymouth tri star in red, white and blue and that I will send out and rechrome and have the painted areas filled in with a colored epoxy material. I did the hood buldge stripes but not the side and over the roof deal, I think the vinyal top looks much better
Some day when I can get pics to post I'll put them up.
With that platform you can have all the hotrod preformance and the high end trim using mostly if not all Mopar parts.
it is kind of like the car I wish they had built
I'd go for it

Sounds like you've got the right frame of mind. Over the decades I've seen and heard the whole range of owners, and I've learned there's only one owner's opinion you need to care about, and that's the guy who looks back at you from the mirror.

I've known guys who've busted their asses and wallets trying to keep their cars as original as possible, and there's always some other owner who looks down their nose and says "my car is better because it's not a clone. I'm not making it out to be something it's not!" The "good" thing is this guy is going to get looked down on by some guy who looks at him and says "my car is better because you used aftermarket sheetmetal to fix your car. I used NOS OEM parts only, so I'm not making it out to be something it's not!" Then that guys gets looked down by someone who says "my car is better because you used replacement sheetmetal to fix your car. Mine is 100% as it came from the factory. I'm not making it out to be something it's not!" Then the pissing contest extends to who's had the fewest owners, lowest miles, rarist colors and options, and on and on.

The extreme level of snobbery I've experienced amongst Mopar owners by far exceeds anything I've experienced at meets for Ford or Chevy shows, and I don't understand what drives it. Maybe it's because our cars are rarer, but I've learned that it's a total waste of time and money to make your car something someone else will like. Do what you want to do, and if someone doesn't like it, who cares... it's not their car.

 

[fla 66 cuda]

The ones whom are anil about nos,year correct,ect are just thinking about resale value [most of them] i personally dont care if its not that way, i don't care about clones [except when they try to pass them off as real] my cars are not museum quality not even close but i like them and don't much care if nobody else does. I agree the level of snobbery that i have experienced personally in a lot of cases are worse than corvettes and high end super cars. I build our cars to be driven and have fun with and still be able to go to shows ocasionally.