ATF+4 Transmission Fluid

[ykf7b0]

I would like a definite answer as to whether all ATF+4 transmission fluids are synthetic or not. While shopping for a quart today I noticed some bottles read full synthetic and some do not indicate. A worker at a chain auto parts store told me all were synthetic but I would like a second or third confirmation regarding this. Thanks!!!

 

[Moparstyle]

Not all trans fluid is synthetic you also have semi synthetic

 

[64BEL]

I remember when it first came out it was referred to as semi-synthetic. The Mopar bottle says it's synthetic.

 

[Cranky]

From what I understand ATF+4 is synthetic....

 

[Photon440]

ATF+4 is synthetic, but need only be Group 3 to qualify (synthesized hydrocarbon). ATF+3 was regular dino oil. You can get loads of details from reading SAE paper #982674 here:

 

[ykf7b0]

If a bottle does not indicate synthetic does this mean it's automatically semi-synthetic? If identifying the contents is this vague I'm thinking a person couldn't go wrong as long as it reads ATF+4. Right or Wrong?

 

[Moparstyle]

As long as you use atf+you will be fine dodge uses HFM style fluids it stands for high friction modified it also goes by 7670 so long story short atf+4 is fine i use it in my 98 durango most manufactures went with full synthetic to go longer between changes another reason on the new cars why the took away the dipstick besides costing you twice as much to change your trans oil lol

 

[Cranky]

Walmart is probably the cheapest for it. They usually do not stock enough for a full change but you can have them order enough or stock up each time to go in. There are two ChinaMarts near me so it didn't take long to stock up.

 

[wyrmrider]

Here's the bottom line
there is synthetic type III and IV and V
Mopar Type 4 is a synthetic and was designed with a PREMIUM additive package to correct shudder and converter clutch failure and also to be economical compared to other synthetics at the time and not to be to much more than previous DEX types
Type IV and Type V were not reasonably priced available when MOPAR type 4 was developed so it has to be a Type III or blend
WTF it works and can be used in all Mopar trans
It is a real upgrade from type 3 and should be used if the older manual says type 3
then ONLY better fluid (IMHO) is fully synthetic type IV-V CITGO Quatrasyn (google it) developed for the Allison to upgrade from the (also older) Allison approved fluid TES-295 (older semi-synthetic)
GM sometimes fills Allison trans with Dex VI (good luck with that in HD- motorhome use) GM does not own Allison anymore and there is a taffy pull over the fluid)
advantages
thinner when cold than even DEX VI better flow for emergency vehicles or snowplows
also Much that's MUCH better when Hot
2-3 x the life of Type III fluids (DEX VI) more with type III fluids typically 150,000 mile service for trucks/ busses
Why not - 5 Gal pails or 4 gallon cases only and hard to find and pricey but worth it if you are having a problem with type 4+ or working in very cold weather
It replaces everything except Type F
I use it also for Nissan and other special fluids
you can also use it in hydroboost etc and ps fluid

 

[wyrmrider]

A little more of more than you need to know
Fully Synthetic means only type IV and V IMHO
Until recently (after Mopar 4+) all additive packages came packaged in dino ATF- so there could not be truly any "Fully Synthetic"
As with motor oil the better the base stock the less the additive package has to do and the less it can "shear down" (thin out, break down)
here is a quote from Citgo
". CITGO QuatraSyn Synthetic Transmission Fluid is built without viscosity modifiers that can shear resulting in viscosity breakdown and loss of power transfer efficiency."
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/C10148.pdf
"CITGO QuatraSyn Synthetic Transmission Fluid is engineered with a proprietary combination of synthetic Group IV and Group V synthetic base oils and high performance additive technology."
Citgo found that using both IV and V together was better than either by itself.
(Redline also has a quality product- there may be others You may know who I am referring to - but no way to check or verify)
That SAE paper referenced in a previous post is a good read- I evidently was utilizing it in my previous post now that i think about it
cheers

 

[383man]

I can tell you my brother and I both use the ATF+4 in our muscle cars and race cars. We were both Mopar dealer techs for over 20 years and we both did trans work. So we have a small supply of the Mopar ATF+4 and got it real cheap so we use it and it has worked fine in all our cars. Ron

 

[wyrmrider]

ATF+4 is way better than DEX III or FORD prior to the latest special stuff
I use it in my 92 Crown Vic and 94 Chev Pickup
I have not tried it in a late Ford or DEX VI application but DEX VI is later with better cold weather flow- it's the hot and life that I am leary of
That said the Citgo is the best out there

The Question about Fully synthetic-in addition to the answer above about the additive carrier remember Castrol vs Mobil 1 where the Dino oil (Type III blend) Castrol "Syntec" was ruled "Synthetic" by the court- so Castrol says "Synthetic"
They may be but they were not in the same league with MOBIL 1 which used much better base stocks.
That was then- this is now and the better base stocks have come down in price
Look at the best motor oils made today- Made from Natural GAS- that's one way to tell
and a reminder- do not add Zink DSSP to SN Oil
use a Calcium based anti wear additive.
Additional Zink can actually make a SN oil worse

 

[Bighead440]

+4 is a "HV" synthetic fluid (high viscosity). When I worked at a ChryCo dealership (1982-1994), the rage was "Type 7176" ATF which was the first (that we were aware of then) "friction modified" fluid to help with TCC shuddering. I would NOT use it for racing due to it's slippery nature, granted that Dextron/Mercon is "slipperier" than Type-F and I personally use Dextron/Mercon. Dex/Merc lubricates better that Type-F so there's my logic. I think +4 may be too much of a good thing for racing but I use it exclusively in anything MoPar with a lock-up converter clutch. When the A-604 came out (FWD O/D transaxle with a modulated TCC system), the instructor at the Chrysler training center told us the "7176" fluid (predecessor to +3 and +4 fluids) was so concentrated that 1qt mixed with 8qts of DextronIII would be more than sufficient to bolster the anti-shudder additives in a early '90s A-604 (minivan/Dynasty/Acclaim, etc.).

 

[ykf7b0]

I originally asked the question if all ATF+4 fluids were synthetic because I wasn't sure of what I was about to put in my 97 Ram 4x4. The 727 in my road runner gets Dex/Merc as recommended by the man who built the trans who is also a retired Chrysler shop tech. My wife's TH350 in her Vette also gets Dex/Merc.

 

[wyrmrider]

Great posts
you do not need 4+ if no converter but it is a great fluid heat wise compared with DEX/Merc
Gil Younger's position (Transgo) was that Type F should not be used for anything except those that specified it (including late Ford Power Steering)
Art Carr and other "racers" pushed Type F- it breaks parts and tears the lining off clutches- but it does shift hard- but hard is not really better or quicker
All +4 fluids HAVE to meet Chrysler's spec and use the approved additive package- so given a reasonable definition of "Synthetic" all are.
I do not know if anyone has raced the CITGO fluid
I was a Chrysler service manager about 10 years before U were- we did do some testing on the early lock up converters including loose converters drag racing- the lock up prototypes definitely did not like Type F- Torqueflytes were developed on Type A- which was partially sperm whale oil based and they will work on motor oil- but not on something with no lube
Story of early converter limo drivers using the converter to heat the car in the winter by holding the break and giving some gas. Chrysler warranty department could not figure out why or how the high temp rated fluid was getting smoked...

 

[ykf7b0]

I have a 9 1/2 converter with a built 727 with bolt in sprag and JVC manual valve body. I also use a stacked plate cooler (can't remember the brand name) along with an inline trans filter and extra capacity fluid pan. Never a problem with the Dex/Merc. I think the ATF+4 probably might have been introduced after Chrysler installed the overdrive transmission in the truck line. If I remember correctly there were some issues with lubrication with the additional gearing inside or the lock up type converter.

 

[wyrmrider]

I use the Borg Warner Canada 100 plate stacked cooler with 1/2 in and out. 1/2 inch lines and a transdapt adapter with spin on filter and the OD trans pan, transgo big kit, converters vary- good choices
converter shudder in all lines - not just truck-with early lock up converters brought about the progression of additive fluids listed in a prior post.
If you ever have heat related issues, even heat on the clutches when cool in the pan the 4+ (or CITGO) can help
you can always tighten up the shifts

 

[wyrmrider]

On DEX III
GM no longer supports or tests
Therefore lots of crap out there claiming to be DEX III they do not even bother to say DEX III compatible
Some Claim to be Compatible with both DEX III and other specs that are totally incompatible with Dino based fluid
so BVVC Major brands only
same is true with other old specs

 

[ykf7b0]

I believe Dex/Merc supersedes Dex III. At least that's the way the bottle reads.

 

[YY1]

Agree with Cranky.

wally's is one of the very few places I can even find ATF+4 which specifically says "for Chrysler vehicles..."