B-17s That Made It Home

[Photon440]

Here's one that made it home but not all the wheels came with it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXF73Q32O98

 

[patrick66]

The 8th Army Air Force suffered more casualties that the entire US Marine Corps did during WW2.

Many people don't know this either:

The medium bomber crews had to complete more than 25 missions before they could rotate back home. I think it was 35 and home.

- - - Updated - - -
.

The crews had to complete 25 missions before they could rotate home. Where do you get the (wrong) number of 35? I'll take the word of my cousins who were there at that time, along with the number I've read in EVERY WWII historical book I can ever recall reading, which is 25. Not some BS interwebz source, thanks.

 

[71airgrabberRR]

The crews had to complete 25 missions before they could rotate home. Where do you get the (wrong) number of 35? I'll take the word of my cousins who were there at that time, along with the number I've read in EVERY WWII historical book I can ever recall reading, which is 25. Not some BS interwebz source, thanks.

You are correct Sir.

I was wrong about the number of missions needed to rotate an air crew home.

It VARIED between 25 to 50 (yes 50) depending on the unit's location, enemy opposition, number of casualties and plane losses, Unit Commander's decisions (meaning AF like 8th AF, 15th AF etc.) I'm talking about General Doolittle, Ira Aker, General Kenney and so on. In one year it could start out at 25 and then shoot up to 35, drop back down again to 25. In the early stages of the war through 1943 it remained at 25. But it DID go to 50 on occasion.

In 1944-45 it was another story. Yes the Medium bombers did start at 25, but towards the end of the war some units were flying 50 missions and home. This did not help morale understandably.

These facts has even been mentioned on several TV shows aired on the Military History channel, regular History Channel, etc. It is a subject that is debated from time to time, and I respect your opinion. I (like you) did not believe that anyone had to fly more than 25, but once I started in depth research I changed my opinion.

I too had family members that served in the Air Corps, Army Air Force and so on. Some were Killed in combat too. I had the opportunity to speak with several family members, (before they died) about this and they were not too happy about it going past 25.

Some of our family members served in the Infantry and they could have changed the name of the movie "Saving Private Ryan" to "Saving Private Gardner" seriously, our family lost 3 out of 4 brothers that were serving in the ETO. But they would have had to wait until Bastogne before they sent out the rescue mission. I'm not making any of this up. Check out this web site link and go down to the "Gardner" "Smith" and "Bricen" names. Read the articles and you will see how we are all related.

http://mtzionhistoricalsociety.org/vetslist.htm


Here is a link to a web site on Thomas Bricen, (believe it's authenticity or not, but I can assure you it's pretty accurate)

http://mtzionhistoricalsociety.org/vet_bricen.htm

This shows the story as it was published in a local newspaper. Tom Bricen actually went on 58 missions in a B-25. This is surprising since he just became a father to a little girl. He never got to see his daughter, since he was killed over Italy..

I authenticated Tom's number of missions through numerous sources, including things such as his units monthly report, (which was declassified after the war) the official MACR report on the crash, and my nephew who works in the records at the National Archives.

I then went and started searching for pictures of various planes that he flew in, since I wanted to build a model of one of the planes he crewed as a memorial to him. I was able to find around 11 or so photographs of actual planes he was in. (that were backed up by aircraft serial numbers in the Daily Mission reports).
In these photographs you can see the serial number which all start with "3" which stood for the year (1943) of the contract order for the bombers that were in service at the time.

Here is a partial list of the planes he was in 43-27714 and a picture or two

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

43-27742 "Winnie May"

- - - Updated - - -

43-27714 was named "Blonde Beauty"

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

43-27680 named "Stuff"

- - - Updated - - -

Here is another photograph of "Stuff" after nose art was added, and it covered the number of mission markers.

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

43-27792 "Cuddle Bunny"

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

"Blonde Beauty" again SN #43-27714 after completing 40 missions in the plane. Crews in this unit did NOT have an assigned aircraft. They flew what was available at the time. The 40 mission marks are what the PLANE flew and not the crew.

- - - Updated - - -

I have many more photos and actual copies of the daily mission logs, crash report, and so on.

Please feel free to PM me if you would like. I love talking about old War Birds.

(and I'm an OCD Aviation Historian)

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, just trying to inform.

Here's another tidbit of information that will BLOW your mind. And it's back on subject.

The "Memphis Belle" was not the actual first Bomber to complete 25 missions.....................

It was done by a B-24 Liberator named "Hot Stuff"

http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/wwii-b-24-liberator-hot-stuff-setting-record-straight.html

However the Army Air Force / William Wyler was filming the "Memphis Belle" documenting the missions. This B-24 beat the Belle on Feb 7th 1943. The Belle completed hers on May 17th, 1943

This article also touches base on the controversy about the number of missions required.

Enjoy !!!

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/wwii-b-24-liberator-hot-stuff-setting-record-straight.html

Try the link again............ Sorry

- - - Updated - - -

OK for some reason it's not working. You may have to Cut and Paste it to get it to work. You will find it interesting.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, to answer your question Blade Cutter, yes the first two photos I previously posted were of a Douglas A-20 Havoc.

The last two in that series of pictures were of your favorite, the Martin B-26 Marauder..............................

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

Here is 43-27792 again. "Cuddle Bunny"

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

and "Cuddle Bunny" again later in the war. By this time Tom was dead, and the unit had stripped the camouflage off their planes to increase performance.

 

[71airgrabberRR]

The crews had to complete 25 missions before they could rotate home. Where do you get the (wrong) number of 35? I'll take the word of my cousins who were there at that time, along with the number I've read in EVERY WWII historical book I can ever recall reading, which is 25. Not some BS interwebz source, thanks.

About 15 years ago I met a gentleman named Ed Malo. He was a P-47 pilot in England during WW2. He flew in the 359th Fighter Squadron, 356th Fighter Group.

Thankfully, Ed wrote a book on his flight training and combat experiences. He gave me a copy of it along with a lithograph of artwork that was commissioned on his plane.

here is what the book cover looks like:

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

Here is a copy of the artwork that depicted his P-47 that he flew. His unit DID have assigned aircraft. He shared this plane with another pilot named Airus E Bergstrom.

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

Inside he talks about our discussion on the number of required missions. This did not come form the "Internet". This is a Veteran speaking who was actually there.

Here is what he has to say:

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

Please read the first paragraph...................................

- - - Updated - - -

Fighter pilots rotated on the number of "Combat Hours" they accumulated. Bomber crews went by the number of missions.

Here Mr. Malo clearly states these facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Please keep in mind that this is the 8th Air Force policy. It varied in other Air Forces such as the 15th AF, 9th AF etc.

Now that I have shown this to you in writing do you believe?????

This is from my personal collection not the internet.

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

This is their unit patch.

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

Now to get this thread back on track................................

- - - Updated - - -

View attachment 255970

- - - Updated - - -

God Bless these Veterans !!!!!!!! Many of whom never came back home.

- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

R.I.P. Lt. Malo

Sadly he passed away in November of 2013.

- - - Updated - - -

My friend you are missed by many.........................

 

[miller]

Appreciate you sharing all that, 71airgrabberRR! You have keepsakes there, worth a lifetime.

All of those planes, and the men who crewed them, should never be forgotten. They went through hell.

Personally, think it's great, to see some that even know what a 47, or 17 is!!

 

[Richard Cranium]

And 70 years later, images such as this is on fighter aircraft is considered sexism.

 

[71airgrabberRR]

And 70 years later, images such as this is on fighter aircraft is considered sexism.

I hear you. The media is one of the things that have been working hard to "castrate" our once great Nation. It was originally done to improve morale and give the crews ownership in their plane. No one took offense to it since there were no women in the ranks of these combat units. Guys will be guys.

Now they did have women who flew planes directly from factories and air depots but these planes didn't have any unit markings as a rule, much less nose art or names on them. These women were called WASP's. Women's Air Service Pilots. And their service freed up more pilots for front line service.

My how times have changed.

 

[miller]

My grandfather, on my dad's side, who I never knew, was also an artist.
Supposily, he painted dozens of the nose arts, on various WW2 planes.

 

[Basket case]

the mission numbers did vary from 25 at the start, then went up to 35.