Bergman supplied High Pressure Line fitment problem

Bergman Auto Craft

  1. MoparGuy68

    MoparGuy68 Well-Known Member

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    This is the first problem with my Borgeson swap, that I'm going to have to contact Peter about.

    He supplied me with a High Pressure line to connect his Saginaw pump to the Borgeson gearbox. When attempting to test fit this line today, for the first time since receiving it, I found the line will not reach the connections on pump and gearbox. The shape of the metal fittings on both ends of the hose prevent a connection.

    I don't see how it is possible to use the line he sent me.. Don't know what car that line is for, but it won't work on my 1971 Charger. When looking at the photos (showing both my old and new Bergman hoses/fittings), you can see there is a drastic difference in the shape of the bends of the metal fittings on either end the the hoses. They are entirely different fittings with completely different bend shapes.

    When the Bergman line is held in place to where it would connect to the high pressure port on the gearbox, the pump end of the line will NOT reach the pump, not even close. If I force it to reach, the fitting makes contact with the pump port at a severe angle, making it impossible to seat in the port properly. In addition the metal fitting, where it bends downward, hits the gearbox preventing that end from even being screwed into the high pressure port at all. If the line is screwed into the pump first, it will not reach the gearbox. Like I said, I don't see how this could possibly fit on my car..

    In contrast, the old line that was connected to my stock box, will work to connect his Pump to the Borgeson gearbox. I will need to confirm that my old hose, can handle the higher pressure of the Bergman supplied Saginaw pump. I have the two lines together in a photo. The Bergman supplied line is the newer looking line, with the white paper tag on the end that connects to the pump. I've included photos showing the fitment of the two different lines, new and old.

    IMG_2570.jpg IMG_2562.jpg IMG_2568.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  2. tonysrt

    tonysrt Well-Known Member

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    I just ran into that problem with a Duster. I had to use a # F3317le, and has # GLO5180. It seems the 90* loop prevents installing on the fitting. The other hose I had to use loops straight into fitting. I was going to go to Pete to show him but I have other problems with the car. The above 2 numbers are stenciled on the hose and that was all I could see.
     
  3. oscar01

    oscar01 Member

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    I have had that same exact issue , the hose I ended up using is Autozone part # 70343 it it a hose for a 1969 coronet.

    70343a.jpg 70343.jpg
     
  4. tonysrt

    tonysrt Well-Known Member

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    The hose I used just happened to be in my parts bin. The numbers I found on the hose, didn't help me to research the hose I have. I'm glad you came up with a correct hose number.
     
  5. MoparGuy68

    MoparGuy68 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the responses guys. I'll be looking up that AutoZone part number #70343. That was supposed to be for a 69 Dodge Coronet, according to the post above.

    Here are the numbers on the Bergman supplied hose:
    On the hose itself: CMK 0032 AIT 3271 3/8" ID 070319F-1 >CM,SY,
    On the pump metal fittings (both ends): no markings
    O.D. of hose = .681" measured with calipers
    I.D. = 3/8"
    On the attached paper tag:
    352840
    70344
    QCCODE
    29519

    I see 70344 on the Bergman hose versus 70343 for the mentioned AutoZone hose.. Only the last digit is different. Need to find out what kind of car 70344 is supposed to be for.

    My old hose that was attached to the stock gearbox:
    On the hose itself: SAS PSE2105 9 SAEJ188 JA 25 3
    On the pump end metal fitting: C-4 13004 CH C H 0 4 0 0
    No marking on the gearbox end metal fitting
    O.D. of hose = .698" measured with calipers
    My old hose should be 3/8" inside diameter like the Bergman hose.

    My old hose looks very similar to the 70343 hose shown in this thread. Very close if not identical.. Compare the photo of my old one installed to the 70343 photo above.

    IMG_1070.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  6. MoparGuy68

    MoparGuy68 Well-Known Member

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    I see you have HP exhaust manifolds that look identical to mine, which are 1968 vintage. Did you install the full factory wire retainer set and spark plug heat shields on your engine?

    I bought a wire retainer set and heat shields from Classic Industries. I had to do sanding on all of the parts, to remove some surface rust and to prepare for paint adhesion. The black rubber/plastic coating on one of the wire retainers that attach to either Driver head bolt 3 or Passenger head bolt 2 was malformed to the point that wires would not fit in them. Same thing with the retainer that mounts to the intake manifold rail. I had to perform surgery on those pieces with an X-Acto knife so that wires could be mounted on them.

    The cream colored plastic wire looms that attach to the 3 metal pieces fit loosely and slide around. I'll probably have to silicon those in place so they don't jiggle around with engine vibration. The fit of those plastic pieces is really poor. There was one old rusty retainer mounted to the lead header bolt on the passenger side when I bought this car. Its plastic loom fit a lot better than this set from Classic. That retainer was probably made decades ago, when things like that weren't made in China.

    I probably will not install the retainer that attaches to Passenger head bolt 2. It seems unnecessary on that side of the engine, just to run plug wire 6 through it.. The retainer that attaches to Driver head bolt 3, doesn't seem to clear the Borgeson gearbox very well. So I may not use that one either.. Did you install these 2 retainers on your engine?

    I'm very nervous about loosening the two adjacent head bolts together, on the Passenger side, to mount the double heat shield for plugs 6 & 8. Worried about disturbing the head gasket. Don't want to have to replace a head gasket on my engine at this time. I have considered cutting that double heat shield in half, between the bolt holes. Then mounting each piece separately. That way I will only have to loosen and then torque back down ONE head bolt at a time and not both simultaneously.

    I've added a photo of my wire retainers and heat shields. The plan is to paint all the metal surfaces black with some left over POR-15 gloss black paint that I had used on the K-Frame steering box mounting surface.

    IMG_2580.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  7. dadsbee

    dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    @BergmanAutoCraft Why is this members hose too short?? Some of the ladies want to know.... :rolleyes:
     
  8. biomedtechguy

    biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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    I was wondering why after 6 posts there was no "official" response...
     
  9. dadsbee

    dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    6 posts in 7 years...:(
     
  10. biomedtechguy

    biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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    ??? I don't understand.
    Bergman only recently became a sponsor with a dedicated section in this forum, or did I miss something?
     
  11. dadsbee

    dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Says he joined Feb 18, 2013 "Been here for 10 years as ........ and officially "sponsored" in January this year. Obviously not participating. Hopefully being a NY boy all is well with him...
     
  12. MoparGuy68

    MoparGuy68 Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to ask Bergman himself why I got hosed by the hose he sent me.. I haven't contacted him yet about it. I needed a quick replacement. So I special ordered the correct Gates hose from my local O'Reilly Auto Parts, which arrived at the store in 5 days time. The Gates hose does have a reference to 70343 on the package label, so that is the correct part number, like my old hose.

    Still don't know what car the 70344 hose is intended for, it's not for mine I know that.. I do know when they looked up Power Steering High Pressure hose for a 1971 Dodge Charger Super Bee 383 4-bbl N Vin. One of the results was the Gates hose I now have, whichs looks very similar to my old hose and looks absolutely nothing like Bergman's 70344 hose..

    If you think any old hose will do, then you are just a hoser poser..
     
  13. dadsbee

    dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    That was why I @BergmanAutoCraft 'd, I was asking him himself as to why your hose was short. Guess he's not interested in participating.
     
  14. biomedtechguy

    biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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    I sincerely hope the Bergman people are doing well, and are super busy with work.
     
  15. 451Mopar

    451Mopar Well-Known Member

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    Had the same line issue on MocaJava car. Originally he had the lines swapped because they would fit that way and the steering went full right turn.
    I think he just re-bent the box side line ends to make it fit? Other than the line issue, everything was good.
     
  16. BergmanAutoCraft

    BergmanAutoCraft FBBO Vendor FBBO Sponsor

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    Relax everyone. There is no reason for accusations. I'm a phone call, text or email away. I've received none of them. I'd guess I'm more reachable for real answers than many other vendors.

    The hose I supply is an E body hose which I explain needs a slight opening of the U bend at the box.
    I also supply a photo of how it looks installed.

    Hose Layout.jpg
     
  17. 451Mopar

    451Mopar Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. You were quick to respond and helpful. I keep telling Mike, if all else fails, read the instructions :)
     
  18. GMachineDartgt

    GMachineDartgt Active Member

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    Thanks everyone for the heads up. In seven years of selling the BB E body hose, people are afraid to tweak the hose a little if necessary. The part that bothers me is not one person who had an issue called, texted, emailed or facebooked me. How do I help?
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • MoparGuy68

      MoparGuy68 Well-Known Member

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      I had no way of attempting to bend it other than with my hands, which I recently tried, and it wasn't gonna happen, I'm not strong enough. I used the B Body Gates hose that I special ordered instead.

      I recall you stating that the flared ends of the high pressure line should not need any thread sealant applied. The flared ends of my fuel lines are leaking at both carburator fuel inputs. Based upon that, I don't trust that they will seal without leaks on the steering system either. I will probably put Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant on them just to be safe. That way after filling the system with fluid, if those flared ends start leaking, I don't have to disconnect them, drain out fluid and seal them.
       
    • BergmanAutoCraft

      BergmanAutoCraft FBBO Vendor FBBO Sponsor

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      The easy way to bend the tubing is to connect it to the pressure fitting first. Thus way it’s easier to bend. I’m also happy to supply the hose that seems to fit better.
      As far as leaks are concerned, I’m not sure your fuel line experience has any relevance here. Flare seats have always worked well. Sometimes it’s helpful to snug it tight, loosen a bit and retighten. This ensures the seats mate together properly.
       
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