CARBURETOR OR FUEL INJECTION

Fuel and Air Systems

  1. CoronetDarter

    CoronetDarter Well-Known Member

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    Dennis hit the bulls eye. If you drive your car a lot and drive it a lot in cold weather, with frequent elevation changes, the efi is a good alternative. But even meeting those criteria, the ignition and charging systems have to be strong for efi to be relatively trouble free. In that regard a carb is much more forgiving of gremlins.
     
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    • 70chall440

      70chall440 Well-Known Member

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      Everyone has their experiences and opinions, like many I ran carbs most of my life, some were trouble free whereas others were nightmares. I suspect that overall EFI systems can have the same types of experiences, but in the 3 systems I have (3 different manufacturers) I cannot say anything negative about them. As I stated initially, I really believe it has to do with how much you drive or will drive you car. I had a brand new Holley 600 on my 52, it sat for about 3 months after I built it and then when I went to drive it finally the carb went south (coughing, choking, didn't want to run, etc.), it was a minor fix and I cannot say the carb was/is junk, however it prompted me to convert to EFI on that vehicle. I recently had to move it after sitting for at least 3 months, fired right up, went to an idle, ran awesome, etc. Is this a definitive test, no, but it is enough for me. The fuel system expense is an issue but not horrible and can be done much cheaper if you run an external pump as many tanks have a return or vent nipple that can be used as a return. I know this, I will definitely be running EFI on my 426 in my 70 RR.
       
    • threewood

      threewood FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      I have only used carburetors, and have to say I have no problems tuning them or keeping them running. Have a 600 cfm Edelbrock Performer on a 62 318 poly with stock fuel system and an 800cfm Edelbrock AVS2 on a 440 with a Holley Sniper pump/tank setup.

      Cost is much lower than efi. I drive them a few thousand miles a year, in 100+ degree temps as well. Works for me but dang the port fuel injection setup looks sweet!!
       
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      • andyf

        andyf Well-Known Member

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        I've switched all of my project cars over to EFI. Just got the Duster running last week:
         
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        • 70chall440

          70chall440 Well-Known Member

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          That runs nice, plus you have a cool set up, I like the digital dash. Are you using a sniper system or ?
           
        • andyf

          andyf Well-Known Member

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          I have a Sniper setup on my Coronet but the Duster got the full meal deal. Sequential port injection, no distributor, 8 coils, etc.
          DSC_4017 (Large).JPG
           
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          • 70chall440

            70chall440 Well-Known Member

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            Are you running a HP or terminator comp?
             
          • andyf

            andyf Well-Known Member

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            Dominator ECU with the Pro Dash, GPS, etc. All the bells and whistles on this car.
             
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            • Dennis H

              Dennis H FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              Want to know how many miles driven and what in tank pump is used in all these good running efi’s.
               
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              • azmoparboy

                azmoparboy Member

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                Hi All, I really like all of the schedule about efi systems. I have two big block cars with the Fitech 30003 systems. Both are running in tank, Tanksinc GPA 2 pumps. Both engines are very stock rebuilt by myself, the 383 has about 6500 miles on it now and my 440 was just Converted just a few months ago, maybe 200 miles. These systems are getting better known all over with so many different options, theirs one out there that will fit any requirement for your car. Keep the stories coming.
                 
                Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
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                • coloradodave

                  coloradodave FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  Okay, Dennis. Mine is a Walbro 255LPH pump. I have about 3,500 miles on my dual Fitech system, primarily on the factory crossram and now on an Indy Modman intake. IMG_1023.JPG IMG_1043.JPG
                   
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                  • 66 Sat

                    66 Sat Well-Known Member

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                    I'm of the cheap and simple mindset. A new Holley 600, no issues at all. Gets driven once or twice a week, probably 20-50 miles at a time. Temperature range 40° on a winter morning, 110° on a summer day, all at mostly sea level. I'm not against fuel injection, I just don't need it.
                     
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                    • matthon

                      matthon Well-Known Member

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                      FiTech, Tanksinc, Hyperfuel, ptfe lines with Fragola fittings, Toyota alternator, new wiring.
                      Bought an MSD for the efi to control, but not yet installed.
                      Yes, definitely more $ needed on top of the efi unit, so don't skimp, but it's worth it if you're prepared.
                      It will not solve existing, unrelated issues.
                      Drove it for years with Holley 390s, then 600s, different animal, then efi, nice!

                      20190813_180340.jpg
                       
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                      • 451Mopar

                        451Mopar Well-Known Member

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                        The Coronet has the Spectra EFI tank with Walbro 255 LPH pump. Have a few thousand miles on it.
                        The Charger has the FiTech/HyperFuel 40019 Retro-fit pump lit with unknown brand 340 lph pump. Only a few hundred miles on that setup, but I did have to replace the the in-tank fuel line. The line that came with the kit got really soft and pushed off the pump outlet barb (even with a clamp on it.)
                         
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                        • matthon

                          matthon Well-Known Member

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                          The Hyperfuel pump comes with efi rated fuel line, but efi fuel line is not rated to be submerged as it will turn to jelly.
                          It also comes with only one traditional style hose clamp, wrong.

                          Swapped out to the correct plastic efi line with the correct clamps on both ends.

                          I like the pump and housing very much though, an fittings.

                          Driving mine since May 2018.
                          Issues:
                          I had to replace in tank hose, as mentioned.
                          I had that rpm error code, wrapped coil wire and ecu wiring in metal tape, no more error.
                          Fuel pressure would go too high, took a few minutes to figure out, but checked psi at different places going back to tank. Drained both tbs, after draining rear back to normal. I figured it got some debris in it at some point when swapping filter.

                          Oh yeah, put a fuel pressure gauge where you can see it asap.
                           
                          Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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                          • threewood

                            threewood FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                            The Holley Sniper in tank pump comes with the hard plastic fuel line that connects the pump to the housing. It had to be heated in order to slip over the fuel barbs and then clamped with efi hose clamp. A very good setup imho.
                             
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                            • 70chall440

                              70chall440 Well-Known Member

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                              Very well done sir!
                               
                            • 70chall440

                              70chall440 Well-Known Member

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                              I am pretty exclusive to EFI these days having had my fill of carburetors; yes I know they work and have been used for many years and I have worked on/with them for many years but I have found EFI to be far better at least for me. if you are reading this and love them, good on you, this is America and you can run what you like. All that said, EFI is not as mysterious as they once were. I have modified my own fuel tanks, I have installed kits, etc. and in the end it is a pretty simple formula. The thing I like most about EFI is that it is a dry system, no fuel sitting in a bowl eating the gaskets away. Also, EFI can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be; you can run stock ignitions or run something like a hall effect distributor or even a crank fired ignition depending upon what you want. I really do like the ability to monitor and modify as necessary a lot of the parameters with a laptop or hand held over the old school method.
                               
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                              • Sweet5ltr

                                Sweet5ltr Well-Known Member

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                                If you look at 70chall440's signature, you can tell he isn't a typical Mopar owner. EFI may not intimidate someone like this.

                                Just my honest opinion here, if you're over 65 or just aren't technologically inclined [nothing wrong with that], you may want to stick with what you know. EFI has a drastic learning curve and will require you to run EFI software on your laptop / Windows tablet / desktop to fine tune. I'll give you a quick rundown of the Holley Sniper EFI.

                                The only self tuning the Holley Sniper EFI does is to the base fuel map, it self tunes nothing else. How this base fuel map is calibrated, is when you originally setup the EFI - you'll enter engine displacement & camshaft profile. The Holley Sniper EFI will come with preset AFR targets, 14:1 IDLE/CRUISE & 12.5:1 WOT. After the coolant temp sensor [CTS] detects 160* coolant, the Holley Sniper EFI will enter learn mode. Learn mode is basically exactly how it sounds, it's learning & applying the changes required to improve the base fuel map to reach your desired AFR @ RPM/MAP sensor readings. The learn table is saved to the ECU, and will be permanently applied once the CTS reaches 160* every startup. Closed Loop compensation is another tool the Holley Sniper EFI will use, to add or subtract fuel to reach your target AFR. Closed Loop changes are not saved to the ECU, and are completely on the fly. Once the Holley Sniper EFI has improved the base fuel map optimally, it is up to the owner to then, set the learn & closed loop compensation limits to lock in the tune [on Holley Sniper EFI software] in case of an 02 sensor failure that would otherwise destroy your perfect tune and leave you stranded on the side of the highway.

                                Basically, the Holley Sniper EFI will self tune the 'main jet & air bleeds' fairly well if you have a combination that's mild. It makes no self tune adjustments to dial in cold & hot starts, other than base enrichment values depending on CTS [will add more or less fuel for cranking, depending on temperature] - once again, you will be required to fine tune these yourself by modifying the IAC values & fuel. You'll also need to manually configure the Acceleration Enrichment [AE] vs. Throttle Position Sensor [TPS] & Manifold Absolute Pressure [MAP] sensor to adjust your 'accelerator pump'.

                                For guys like myself with 9" 4.5k converters, 3.55-3.73 gears & big camshafts, all tuning is done manually. Meaning, driving the car - data log - drive it home - make changes - drive the car again - data log - etc. It's satisfying, but unless you're into this, it's probably not what you want to hear as most are buying EFI to do this for you. I run a dedicated 10" Windows 10 Tablet in the car to data log & tune. The Holley Sniper EFI system is marketed as 'bolt on & go'. That's rarely the case, although, with very mild applications [350HP SBC] this can be true.

                                Realistically, if you're dead set on getting EFI and don't want to do it alone - go to Adam Nick Langen @ Mad Scientist Motorsports. He is THE GUY when it comes to Holley Sniper EFI tuning, he's tuned hundreds of these units from mild to twin-EFI blown big-blocks. Everything is done remotely and his tunes are for life. Holley will also recommend you to him, he's that well known in the Holley Sniper EFI community.
                                 
                                Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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                                • 70chall440

                                  70chall440 Well-Known Member

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                                  That is excellent information and advice, I absolutely agree that EFI is probably not for everyone and also agree that the learning curve can be intimidate and a bit complex. For the record, I am definitely not an EFI expert, but I have gained a lot of respect for it and some understanding of it. Regardless of your age, if you want to learn its there, if you have no interest in learning and are not technology inclined, EFI may not be for you. Perhaps better said, if you know carburetors and are comfortable with them and are not interested in EFI technology, then the path is clear, stick with what you know. I certainly would not want to be beholding to some tuning shop to keep my car running or running right.
                                   
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