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Converting early taper axles/hubs to use later removable brake drums and all RH lug studs.

Big Bad Dad

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Hey guys, I am seeing posts about changing rear ends on early B bodies with the old style taper axles. I considered making that change, but, since nothing is really wrong with my original rear end, I didn't want to go through the work and expense to do it. However, I am in process of a front disc conversion on my 64 Fury, and wanted to get rid of the remaining left hand studs on the rear. Plus, I needed one new drum, and would like something easier to work on. I did a bunch of online research about cutting the swaged lug studs so they could be removed. I read this article> Mopar Tapered Axle Brakes, and used a slightly different method on my car. (NOTE: Do NOT try to just beat or press the original. swaged studs out. They are hydraulically pressed to swell out kind of like a rivet, and you will ruin your hub unless you cut the swages first.) I started by pulling the old drums and hubs:
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Notice the small serrations around the lug studs. That is where they are swaged and swelled out to hold them in place.

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After careful measuring and figuring, I purchased a couple of 11/16" hole saws. I used the saw with no drill bit in the arbor. The 11/16" saw fit over the lug studs to keep it in position. It wasn't perfect, but it worked just fine. I used a big drill, took my time, worked slowly, and used a lot of oil to lube and cool the hole saw. I ended up with 3 broken teeth in it, but was able to cut out all 10 studs with only one hole saw. I had to be careful to only cut through the swages and drums, and to NOT cut into the actual hubs. Once the drums are cut through, it is pretty easy to persuade the studs out without damage to the hubs.

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After a couple of wrong guesses and assumptions, and wrong parts ordered, I finally came up with studs to use. Dorman part number 610-095 from RockAuto. I pulled them into the hubs with spacers and a few old lug nuts turned over with the flat side toward the hubs. I stripped a couple of the nuts, which gave me the "oh ****" feelings when it happened. But the studs survived just fine. I guess they are harder than the nuts. I was a bit concerned that the shoulders might protrude too far out of the drum, but I checked out the clearances with one of my old original wheels, and it looks like they will work OK.

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I ordered two new drums from RockAuto. Raybestos part number2947R. Once I got the hubs on and snugged down, it looks like the drums are going to work for me. I still need to torque the axle nut to 145 ft/lbs, but will do that after the tires are on and the car is back on the ground.


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You may have noticed that I put a coat of ant-seize compound on the axle before I put the hubs back on. Just in case there is ever a need to pull the hub in the future, it should be much easier.
 
This is what the original studs look like after the removal. The swage is cut away as well as the hole in the old drum is enlarged...

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It is a big no-no to put anything on the hub/axle Press fit surfaces. Should go on dry. They are supposed to be hard to pull off, it’s all in the design.

Yours were not seized because they came apart with the puller. Just as designed.

Just like we don’t use anti seize on a harmonic balancer, they go on dry also.
 
Thanks for the photos!
What did you think of the new drums that you got from Rock Auto?
 
I use anti seize on just about everything. It keeps things from rusting plus it makes things easier to pull apart.....especially on stuff that doesn't get pulled apart very often. If the torque is right on the nut, it shouldn't make any difference....imo.
 
Thanks for the photos!
What did you think of the new drums that you got from Rock Auto?
One looked good. One has two big balance weights on it. I have not finished the job yet, so have not driven with them.
 
Thanks for the update on the part numbers.
Member @Centerline wrote the article you posted many moons ago.
Mopar Tapered Axle Brakes

When converting my front hubs to pull off drums the studs listed weren't available anymore. Also the front drums have a smaller center hole. Just ever so slightly smaller that you could almost use the rear drum on the front hubs but it's a little loose on the center of the hub. NAPA 440-1056 works perfect for the front hub.

Post in thread 'Taking Up New Residence' Taking Up New Residence
Post in thread 'Taking Up New Residence' Taking Up New Residence
Post in thread 'Taking Up New Residence' Taking Up New Residence
 
I have noticed there are two different types of the swaged lug studs. This style, as in khryslerkid's posting, I believe has a smooth body and the four swages are what makes it tight and unable to turn:
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And then the knurled style like on my car where the knurled shoulder is pressed to make it swell out:

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I don't know if it was a difference between his 1962 and my 1964, or if both styles could be had in all the early B bodies.
 
It is a big no-no to put anything on the hub/axle Press fit surfaces. Should go on dry. They are supposed to be hard to pull off, it’s all in the design.

Yours were not seized because they came apart with the puller. Just as designed.

Just like we don’t use anti seize on a harmonic balancer, they go on dry also.
I disagree. The taper fit is what holds on so tightly. The antisieze just prevents rust, which tends to make things stick. I don't believe rust would be figured in as part of the engineering design of the parts. That's what the toque spec of 145 ft/lb on the nut is for.
 
Ok I still disagree with you. The cars were built to get through the 5 year warranty, and that’s usually what’s addressed in the service manual. No mention of anything on the tapered axle/drums. If it was needed they would advise it. When did the tapered av
es start? I know 1957 had them. And 1964 was the last year of them so for at least 8 model years here and no mention of using anything on them.

in addition there are businesses that deal with these 1964 and earlier cars, thsee businesses say to put them on dry.

Have you ever hear and engine article or seen a video where they say to use anti sieze on a harmonic balancer?

but I agree with using in on various places on the vehicle. So I asked a business and he strongly advised aganst putting anything on that drum taper. Install it dry.
 
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Why do you think it is a bad idea, other than some business said not to? It is not going to get loose and come off with the nut torqued down. And this is a tapered shaft that gets tighter as it gets squeezed. It is not a straight shaft like a crankshaft snout. So what does a harmonic balancer have to do with this??
EDIT: I went back and read your first post about this >
"It is a big no-no to put anything on the hub/axle Press fit surfaces. Should go on dry. They are supposed to be hard to pull off, it’s all in the design."

These tapered axles and hubs are not a pressed fit. Now, the rear axle bearings that are actually pressed on to the shafts, and have the retainer lock ring pressed on with them, YES they should be installed dry. But the rear hub is not a press fit like the actual bearings. Perhaps that is what your business friend was referring to.
 
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I use anti seize on just about everything.

Ok I still disagree with you.
Pulled these two random comments....

I'm thinking this is not worth much of an argument (or even much of a disagreement). I'd bet both the balancer, and the tapered axle hubs have been done, with lube or anti-sieze, and without lube or anti-sieze a billion times.

I personally would use anti-sieze on the tapered axle hubs regardless of the service manual recommendations, but would likely use bearing lube or plain light grease on the crank snout instead of anti-seize.

Why you need an aftermarket harmonic balancer
 
@Big Bad Dad On your last post last line, perhaps not.

*the topic was the drums and how hard they come off
*I questioned if anti seize would help
*The answer was definitive, install them dry!
 
Mot much about this thread is making me happy.
Hey, I’m just telling you what the conversation was, and eliminating your “perhaps“ axle bearing nonsense part of it.

You go ahead with beatin your head against the wall, but it will feel better if you stop.
 
I cut the studs on my 67 Jeep Gladiator pick-up the same way a few years ago. Worked great.
Doug
 
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