Distributor INstall Questions

[ScottVA]

I have a 440 and just replaced the distributor and removed the OEM unit. I am sitting at TDC on number 1, but the oil pump drive simply does not line up with the old unit. My number 1 plug sits at about 5 oclock and the rotor button sits past it slightly in the direction of rotation. The car runs like crap. Is the timing too retarded? Any suggestions or ideas? Thanks so much.

Scott

 

[62Furious]

When you pull the distributor you have to re-time your ignition, if you run out of distributor rotation you have to move the wires one post clock-wise or counter clock-wise to get the timing on the mark

 

[Daves69]

IF your distributors are clocked different you "could" also index the intermediate shaft to make the distributors appear the same (or close to it). Easier to just index the wires around though.

 

[uwss]

I just went through this: 1st step: TDC no.1, 2nd Step: make sure the oil slot is parallel to crankshaft, use a pair of needle nose pliers and pick it up and you will see it spin or rotate as it seats, you may need to do this several times to get it right, 3rd step: set your distributor in the hole but do NOT push it all the way in, turn the rotor to align with whatever one you want as no.1 terminal, hold cap so it doesn't move and then seat the distributor.
4th step: pull up on rotor to make sure you have some play, if not you'll have to shim your distributor. 5th step; do the firing order. I put a dap of dielectric grease on all terminals including the spark plug ends. Last step: turn the distributor clockwise until it starts, put your timing light on it and you are done.

 

[69Bee]

TDC on the compression stroke, not the intake stroke. You can also use a large flat tip screwdriver, and turn the intermediate shaft CCW. It will rotate out of mesh, and keep turning until it faces your desired direction when fully seated.

 

[ScottVA]

Rotating it CCW won't upset timing in any way? I used a pressure/vacuum gauge to find TDC so I feel confident that I'm on the right stroke. So, turn it until it is parallel to the crank I suppose? Thanks for the replies, guys. I do appreciate the help.

 

[ScottVA]

Okay, so now I am at a loss. How can something so simple get so messed up? I tried flipping the dizzy 180* and it immediately backfired through both carbs. Obviously 180* out, but I had to try to make sure. I turn the dizzy back around and turn some so that the rotor is slightly ahead of number 1 terminal in the direction of rotor CCW rotation. It starts, runs poorly, and still backfires through the carbs. In relation to the number 1 terminal on the cap, where do you set the rotor to initially start it? Slightly ahead of the terminal, dead on the terminal, or slightly before the terminal in regards to rotor rotation? I just can't believe that I am that far out of timing based on where its sitting right now. It's pointing very closely to where the old unit came out which ran fine. Any help again will be appreciated. Thank you. Scott

 

[uwss]

You set the rotor dead on. the distributor is not yet seated yet. Hold the cap so it doesn't move and push it down. Now, try and start it. if it doesn't start turn the distributor CW a few degrees at a time until it does.

I had the same issue, the rotor would lead the terminal or lag depending on how you look at it. After talking to a buddy, I found out the rotor can be placed directly pointing to the terminal. Just set the distributor in the hole, hold the body and turn the rotor to whatever one you want as NO.1. then seat it or push it fully down.

I had to turn mine clockwise about 3/4" to get it to start. Let it warm up then set your initial timing and while it is hot check your rockers. Then rev it to 2500 rpm and set total timing. Now, you are done.

 

[67 B-body]

With #1 piston at TDC on compression stroke, you can find which point on the cap that the rotor is pointing. From this point, one inch of marked rotation " measured at the cap" will get you on the money for startup and likely to be within a degree of ignition advance.

 

[miller]

Point-type distributor? Single or dual?

Anyway, have you moved the dist drive gear any? Keep in mind the slot at the top of the gear does not have to be in a certain position. But, during normal build it's lined up with the crank, putting the slot in line for an easy range of timing rotation.

Motor needs to be at TDC compression stroke. Correction...at initial timing (10 degrees before TDC). In other words line up your timing mark.

Is your advance working free? Also make sure your dist cap is okay. Including the center carbon button inside the cap.
What ever kind of advance you have...mech, or vacuum, and the #1 plug wire location, the dist should be dropped in place, so you have clearance for rotation to set the timing. Okay. Probably already know most of this.

If you have the motor sitting at 10 degrees BTDC, you basicly want the rotor just coming to the #1 contact inside the cap. It should start, being fairly close in time, unless it's 180 out. Then put a timing light on it, to finish timing it.

 

[1966satellite]

Point-type distributor? Single or dual?

Anyway, have you moved the dist drive gear any? Keep in mind the slot at the top of the gear does not have to be in a certain position. But, during normal build it's lined up with the crank, putting the slot in line for an easy range of timing rotation.

Motor needs to be at TDC compression stroke. Correction...at initial timing (10 degrees before TDC). In other words line up your timing mark.

Is your advance working free? Also make sure your dist cap is okay. Including the center carbon button inside the cap.
What ever kind of advance you have...mech, or vacuum, and the #1 plug wire location, the dist should be dropped in place, so you have clearance for rotation to set the timing. Okay. Probably already know most of this.

If you have the motor sitting at 10 degrees BTDC, you basicly want the rotor just coming to the #1 contact inside the cap. It should start, being fairly close in time, unless it's 180 out. Then put a timing light on it, to finish timing it.

If you have vacuum advance be sure to disconnect it before setting timing.

 

[ScottVA]

Success!!! Sort of...thanks so much guys for all of the help. It turned out that I was, along with the timing, severely retarded. I set the timing at about 11* BTDC and it started and seemed okay. My timing light, at 30 years of age decided to give up the ghost so I never got the engine to full temperature. Now the bad news...the header pipe on #7 cylinder got red hot...I don't know if this was excess fuel from prior failed attempts at starting or the carburetor feeding that bank is now bad from the backfires or I am now lean...but it was only in one cylinder...HELP..yet again. Thanks to you, though, I did get it running. The dizzy is a Firecore with no vacuum advance and chrome Mopar box and the engine has 2 Eddy 500CFM carbs. Any ideas?

 

[miller]

Some of the other gents will have more ideas.

But, first thing I'd do is pull your #7 spark plug, bring the piston up, and look over the top of the piston. Any signs of melting, or burning could be signs of detonation, or the like, since your timing was off.
Might also check for a broke valve, or valve spring in that hole.
Good luck on it.

 

[coloradodave]

Advance the timing and see if the red goes away. It's a lean condition or the exhaust valve in that cylinder isn't seating. Is the motor idling smoothly?

 

[cordoba-rick]

My question..have you changed the carb? If yes, maybe you have tuning issues with lean or rich settings..if not, why is no7 hot and glowing...?

 

[ScottVA]

Thanks guys. The engine never got warm enough to idle on its own. It has no chokes on the carbs and thus is very cold natured. The carbs are the same as before and the items I changed are the plugs...NGK 6, I think, the wires, Taylor 50 ohm variety, and the distributor which is the Firecore with no vacuum advance. I'm hoping, like Dave mentioned, that I do not have enough timing in it. I set it at 11* initially and I have advanced just a little bit since because my light broke. I don't think it's a detonation problem due to the fact that it didn't run but very little before now but I will check the piston. I mix 110 octane with ethanol free 93 so I know my fuel charge is cool enough. Thanks guys....will keep you posted. I sincerely appreciate the help from the folks on this board.

 

[383man]

99% of the time when I see headers glowing red it was retarded timing causing it. Ron

 

[ScottVA]

Thanks Ron, I hope that's all it is. It's really the only thing that has changed so my fingers are crossed. I have to buy a new timing light so I won't be able to make the timing adjustment until then. It's been over 30 years since I bought one and I hadn't realized how fancy, expensive, and not made here anymore that they have become. Hopefully, proper timing will fix it. Are 440's good at 36* total?

 

[miller]

Just curious. Did you take a look in the spark plug hole? If so, see anything?

I'd sure waste my time doing it, just to know. I'd also pull the valve cover on that side, and look real good at the valves and springs for #7. Sounds mechanical to me, if it is only hitting #7 hot.

Bad mixture/timing would affect more cylinders than only one.
If you do fire that thing off, watch it carefully! That kinda deal can go south real quick.

 

[ScottVA]

Yes, I did try. It is difficult to see in that cylinder being #7. I turned the piston up and lightly ran a small pick to feel around and from feel, it seemed okay. Haven't pulled the valve cover. I am worried that only one cylinder did this, but can't figure why it even should have considering air/fuel mixture wasn't changed at all. It was just a dizzy swap out that has ended up being like most of my car projects...problems and hassles. The car has a cross ram set up and I'm not familair with problems inherent to those setups regarding the mixtures. No pipes got hot like that with the old dizzy, wires, and plugs. Once I get my light, I'll go back to work on it and find out. Thanks for the help