Engine Masters 440+6 vs Hemi

64BEL

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The new episode of Engine Masters with Frieburger and Dulcich is putting the 440 6 Pack up against the 426 Hemi. This Friday at 8:00pm Central time on MotorTrend TV. :popcorn:
 

super-bee_ski

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I've seen "Runs" from Muscle car Review.....Back in the day....(and I own a original May 69 Hemi)
I'm betting on the 440!
as long as the Rear Ends are equal....
 

64BEL

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Ski - It'll be on an engine dyno.
 

Bee1971

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Sorry , Old News

Came out On Demand Back In June

Say no more and don’t hit the search function
 

Budnicks

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I'll watch it...
I watch & DVR them all, save a few to refer back to
I like that show...

rebuilds I'm sure
I wonder if they stuck to stock replacements stuff ?
what did they do to each, specifically ?

if all are/is equal, all stock on the DYNO
I'll say the Hemi makes more
if it's 100% stock form

(depends on which Hemi too, even which year, what induction,
what cam hydn or solid, Race or Street Hemi ?)
I've seen 480-ish/hp taken to higher RPM than the org. redline
& factory rated 425 hp at the lower #'s/RPM
now driveability
I'd take the 6bbl every day over the Hemi
I've seen like 69-70 A12 combos @ 415-ish hp
just changing the restrictive exhaust
but I'll take the Hemi for value, tradition/history & eye appeal
even if I own/'d a bunch of the 6bbls/Six packs

I don't have the MotorTrend app...
or pay an extra $5 a month to see it sooner
type deals

I can wait
so I see it when it comes on cable TV, 754 Comcast here
 

super-bee_ski

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This was my Hemi on dyno at Dugan's in Fontana CA

NOTICE the RPM?
Engine Masters stated they needed to get the Hemi above 6,000RPM for peak HP
We cut mine off at 5,300 RPM

Mine is a stock automatic camshaft, notice the Holley Short Bowls?
Also I have a Hansen Manifolds and Stage V heads...


1970 Hemi 426 run DATA.jpg
 

Budnicks

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Yeah like most of US all think or knew
the Hemi didn't do as well till higher RPM
after 5,000 (short intake runners)
the 6bbl is a torque monster down low, but only up to about 5,800
440-6 hands down way better Tq #s' down low
(the Org. 440 6bbl Edelbrock dual-plane setup w/2300 2bbls flowed like 940cfm
factory rated, not anywhere near the total 1,350cfm, of the carbs cfm value)

the Hemi in a WOT drag race situation can perform way better
at or above 6,000rpm when the 6bbl falls off

More cid doesn't hurt the 440-6bbl either
the 440-6 had a lil' more compression 9.4:1(ish) vs 9:1 Hemi
440-6 be great with a 3.91:1 street gears & 3,800-4,000 stall

same spec. Hyd. roller cam used in both engines

that cam they used did well on both
Hydr. Rollers like 0.550-ish lift, (not sure what rockers/push rods)
I don't remember what they said, in duration either (230-ish (?) @ 0.050)

I know it wasn't real-wild cam,
IIRC they said installed at 107*-108*

"allegedly both had stock 'unported' cast iron heads"
906 w/"alleged" stock valves on the 440-6 "allegedly"
both were less than org. stock advertised compression ratios

The 426 Hemi was an early version of the MP 426 Crate Hemi, 20 years ago
except for the
Stave V (IIRC) Holley square-bore 2x4bbl 4160 carbs/dual plane manifold
(I assume 600cfm carbs, I don't remember them saying the cfm or model #'s)
instead of the Org. style stock intake, with 2 small 525 Carters
it'd be great with like a 5,000 stall & 4.56:1 - 4.88:1 gears
(Frieberger said he has 5.13:1 IIRC in his 70 SB, it was a pooch with 3.73:1)

both had aftermarket distributors & ignition,
both had -6 AN fittings & lines feeding everything
not the lil' 5/16" restrictive org. steel fuel lines
both/all, a win win

both had dyno headers, not the restrictive 'cast iron hp manifolds'
(there's probably 25-30hp right there)

mid 550+ish HP not too shabby, for stock-ish BBM builds
 
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64BEL

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After I finally put a tach in my Satellite, I realized how I had never really gotten all that close to the real power of the Hemi. It was an eye opener!
 

33 IMP

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Early Saturday morning (1am) I saw that I had missed both showings of that episode. Darn it! Would have recorded it along with my other thirty EM episodes.
Edit 440 Sixpack peak horsepower was rated at 4700 rpm (!?!).
 

Photon440

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Yeah like most of US all think or knew
the Hemi didn't do as well till higher RPM
after 5,000 (short intake runners)
the 6bbl is a torque monster down low, but only up to about 5,800
440-6 hands down way better Tq #s' down low
(the Org. 440 6bbl Edelbrock dual-plane setup w/2300 2bbls flowed like 940cfm
factory rated, not anywhere near the total 1,350cfm, of the carbs cfm value)

the Hemi in a WOT drag race situation can perform way better
at or above 6,000rpm when the 6bbl falls off

More cid doesn't hurt the 440-6bbl either
the 440-6 had a lil' more compression 9.4:1(ish) vs 9:1 Hemi
440-6 be great with a 3.91:1 street gears & 3,800-4,000 stall

same spec. Hyd. roller cam used in both engines

that cam they used did well on both
Hydr. Rollers like 0.550-ish lift, (not sure what rockers/push rods)
I don't remember what they said, in duration either (230-ish (?) @ 0.050)

I know it wasn't real-wild cam,
IIRC they said installed at 107*-108*

"allegedly both had stock 'unported' cast iron heads"
906 w/"alleged" stock valves on the 440-6 "allegedly"
both were less than org. stock advertised compression ratios

The 426 Hemi was an early version of the MP 426 Crate Hemi, 20 years ago
except for the
Stave V (IIRC) Holley square-bore 2x4bbl 4160 carbs/dual plane manifold
(I assume 600cfm carbs, I don't remember them saying the cfm or model #'s)
instead of the Org. style stock intake, with 2 small 525 Carters
it'd be great with like a 5,000 stall & 4.56:1 - 4.88:1 gears
(Frieberger said he has 5.13:1 IIRC in his 70 SB, it was a pooch with 3.73:1)

both had aftermarket distributors & ignition,
both had -6 AN fittings & lines feeding everything
not the lil' 5/16" restrictive org. steel fuel lines
both/all, a win win

both had dyno headers, not the restrictive 'cast iron hp manifolds'
(there's probably 25-30hp right there)

mid 550+ish HP not too shabby, for stock-ish BBM builds
I don't know what a real test shows, but the 1970 service manual shows 10.25 compression for the hemi.
 

64BEL

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Early Saturday morning (1am) I saw that I had missed both showings of that episode. Darn it! Would have recorded it along with my other thirty EM episodes.
Edit 440 Sixpack peak horsepower was rated at 4700 rpm (!?!).
33, You'll get another chance next Friday at 7:30pm central and again Saturday at 2:30am.
 

Paul_G

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What I like about watching Engine Masters, they show the graph and overlay both, or many, runs to show where the engines made power. The peak numbers only tell a small part of the story. Sometimes an engine can make less peak power, but make more power through out the entire run. Winner on the street and track.
 

64BEL

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Found it on Saturday morning, 1:30am on my system. Already set to record. THANKS 64BEL!
(I'm a little prejudiced, I've got an A12).
I'd like to have one of each! I was fortunate enough to have a 440 6bbl in my '70 GTX back in high school. It was transplanted into that car from a '69 A12 RR.
 

33 IMP

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What I like about watching Engine Masters, they show the graph and overlay both, or many, runs to show where the engines made power. The peak numbers only tell a small part of the story. Sometimes an engine can make less peak power, but make more power through out the entire run. Winner on the street and track.
They made that clear in their 500hp small block vs 500hp big block episode. The cheaper big block (costs more to build 500 hp with only 372 inches than with 454) destroyed the small block throughout the curve, 100 foot pounds stronger at some points. No need for a giant cam, or ridiculous rear-end gear. Just a better driver all around.
 
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