Fantom Works

[YY1]

OK, we have threads for Counting Cars, Fast and Loud, and Graveyard Cars.

What does anyone think of the latest one?

I've seen about three episodes.

The drama seems to be centered around how much the work costs, with dramatic pauses between the time the customer asks, the time the owner "reveals" the cost, and the time the customer accepts the answer. Most seem to be in the $60-$90K range !!!

One was the "mother in law" episode, where she seemed not to be aware that her son in law was able to afford a $90K car. Really?

I believe if my in-law was able to cough up that kind of cash, I'd know.

I also saw the episode where the sheet metal guy discovered that hardtop quarters were purchased for a convertible. It was casually mentioned that they were bought before the guy was hired. The owner went off on him pretty hard.

Then we find out in the next segment (like we forgot already) that convertible specific panels are not even available for that car !! Really? Was all that necessary?

 

[super-bee_ski]

Yeah, I caught that "impression" too...

Saw one where he said: $40 K

 

[krowbar]

What channel is that on?

 

[Budnicks]

What channel is that on?

Velocity, part of the Discovery Network

 

[YY1]

Other than those things, which interestingly seem to not take up too much time, it's not too bad.

 

[Budnicks]

I've watched a couple episodes now... IMHFO I think the owner is a total Narcissistic Stuck Up Jerk for the most part, not always doing what the customers ask for, engine suspension etc., even one of his best friends, talking smack about his buddy, that bailed on him because of it {on a $70k build on a 65 Mustang}... The way it's edited, seems he's only doing what he wants, only cares about the billing hrs or the money & not what the customer wants... But the young guy that does all the sheet metal & fab work, has some serious talent for sure.... I'm sure it's all scripted too...

- - - Updated - - -

:iamwithstupid: the owner goes off on a new dude, before he knows what's actually going on, typical Reality show scenario, like I said he's a jerk...

- - - Updated - - -

we'll see I'll watch a few more, his daughter is cute too...LOL....

 

[Ghosty]

That '63 Stingray came out pretty badass! I think it's funny the douchey owner bought the car thinking it was "cherry" just because it was in storage for three decades, lol! DIDN'T even bother having an actual mechanic check it out before dropping a ton of cash (probably). Then almost $65k for FantomWorks to fully restore it. Beautiful in the end, but yet another douche owner.

As for his "buddy" with the '66 (?) Pony fastback, that guy was a dipshit, imo. I'll have to watch again to list details. Then in the end decided he didn't want the damn car, EVEN though it turned out beautiful! I'm so curious how much they sold it for finally, probably a mint considering the prices I've seen on the show. I do like how much they did on that one '31 Highboy for under $20k. That actually seemed reasonable, for the guy who's Dad died.

As for the '64 Impala, again beautiful FULL restoration from a rusted frame bucket. But seems like you could do it for cheaper than $97k, IF you started out with a much nicer donor than that basket-case. Unless it's some super-rare model of Impala (which I doubt) w/ rare motor, options, etc. why the hell did they start with that junk, when you plan on spending almost six figures anyway? Seems like the difference in donor car would've been neglible. Just spend $15k - $20k on a nice donor with much of the interior and body INTACT to begin with.

I just don't get the "logic". Sure, turned out beautiful show winner in the end, but still, feel like the owners threw away $20k - $40k just so Fantom could profit huge on labor cost.

 

[Budnicks]

That '63 Stingray came out pretty badass! I think it's funny the douchey owner bought the car thinking it was "cherry" just because it was in storage for three decades, lol! DIDN'T even bother having an actual mechanic check it out before dropping a ton of cash (probably). Then almost $65k for FantomWorks to fully restore it. Beautiful in the end, but yet another douche owner.
As for his "buddy" with the '66 (?) Pony fastback, that guy was a dipshit, imo. I'll have to watch again to list details. Then in the end decided he didn't want the damn car, EVEN though it turned out beautiful! I'm so curious how much they sold it for finally, probably a mint considering the prices I've seen on the show. I do like how much they did on that one '31 Highboy for under $20k. That actually seemed reasonable, for the guy who's Dad died.

As for the '64 Impala, again beautiful FULL restoration from a rusted frame bucket. But seems like you could do it for cheaper than $97k, IF you started out with a much nicer donor than that basket-case. Unless it's some super-rare model of Impala (which I doubt) w/ rare motor, options, etc. why the hell did they start with that junk, when you plan on spending almost six figures anyway? Seems like the difference in donor car would've been neglible. Just spend $15k - $20k on a nice donor with much of the interior and body INTACT to begin with.

I just don't get the "logic". Sure, turned out beautiful show winner in the end, but still, feel like the owners threw away $20k - $40k just so Fantom could profit huge on labor cost.

That Corvette wasn't IMHFO a $65k restoration, it wasn't even a restoration, it was a Fantom Build, the Corvette purist would have chit... the Impalla was a big waste of the owners money too... the only decent price on a build yet on that show, was the 31 Ford coupe for $20K, the rest were a rip off, even the Studebaker truck, wasn't it like $100k {correction $127,500 what a rip off, for that truck} too & it was left in raw steel, talk about throwing good money at something, just to see where it will stick, that will never-ever be worth it... They're all nice builds after they were done, but also very costly for what they were IMHFO... The guy with the Mustang fastback was a dumb ***, yes, but the owner of Fantom Works should have built what the guy asked for, PERIOD... not his own personal vision of a 65-66 Pony car should be... I'll still watch thou...

 

[bzabodyn]

For argument's sake - do y'all know what a professional/high-end rest shop is charging for labor/hr these days? In the Houston/TX area, $75/hr is in the very LOW end of the spectrum. 800-1000hrs is nothing on a total resto - I have more than that in body/paint starting with a rust bucket.

BZ

 

[thomas93254]

The reason the Vette was 65K was the amount of extra labor and overtime that had to be put into it to meet the owners deadline. Also they had to build a fiberglass hard top from scratch for that car as well. A six month build in 2 months means that extra time and more hands doing O.T. to get it done. And quality work cost money. Talented labor is not cheap. You can't pay all your people minimum wage.
The Mother in law not knowing about the money is not far fetched as I do not tell mine anything when it comes to money as they will give my wife crap behind my back so money is not discussed, but it was probably scripted.
The 31 ford I believe that the sheet metal guy might have put in time off the books to make that happen. His love goes as deep as his talent and he enjoyed that build.
Face it the cost for any shop to restore a car is going to be high for quality work. Thats why so many of us do our own work when we can.
The truck was all custom and one of a kind when done and that was worth it to the owner of that truck.
The owner of Fantom Works stats that you might not like the way he runs his shop, being an ex marine he will be harder on his people since, as he states, he thinks everything should run with 100% efficiency. . Lets also do not forget that there is overhead that has to be covered. Electricity, water, supplies, tools, permits, taxes, payroll all take a part of that 'huge profit". There is a reason that shops charge $135 an hour in labor....

Thomas

 

[Ghosty]

Yeah I shouldn't have said "restored" as in original, on that Vette. Different motor, wheels, etc. Agree, the Studebaker Bullet truck was a ton of money. But all these owners seem happy (except Mustang guy). Of course we're only gonna see the good projects, heh. And maybe scripted too.

Damn bzabodyn, 1k hours in body/paint? I hope it's a rare car with good options to command that type of commitment, energy, and $$$$$! That's like five months of 50hr.-weeks of labor, just on one car?

 

[Cranky]

Already watching way too much TV as it is without watching another lol

 

[Budnicks]

For argument's sake - do y'all know what a professional/high-end rest shop is charging for labor/hr these days? In the Houston/TX area, $75/hr is in the very LOW end of the spectrum. 800-1000hrs is nothing on a total resto - I have more than that in body/paint starting with a rust bucket.

BZ

Yes I'm well aware of labor costs, I've been doing this stuff for nearly 40 years now, been around the racecar & fab side for my whole adult life, since 1974, I've been around body shops & racecar fabrication, I've personally built 26 racecars from the ground up, 14 for myself & 12 to support my racing habit/addictions for friends, then probably another 40+ street/muscle cars too, Chevy, Ford, Buick, Old, Pontiac & Ma Mopars on #13 68-70 RR's now & at lest 12 or so 68-70 Charger's... IMHFO it's one thing, being a professional shop that overcharges... $50 isn't bad, even $75, but $100-$150 an/hr even, that's a rip-off for a shop that pays his help chump change, that are all just a bunch of young guys, mostly inexperienced {not all}... more the reason to build my own stuff... The A-typical shade tree mechanic & a hobbyist/builder, that does it at his own pace, milks it for ever, your not paying the labor rate & you can't justify that 1000hrs to a paying customer, unless it's a contract for that much work, at a professional fab/restoration shop like Fantom Works, where stuff is supposed to be done, in a timely & professional manner, like for the product they are supposed to turn out anyway... It's all apples & oranges in my opinion, your entitled to your opinion & I'm sticking with mine... These people should all get a performance contract up front, in writing & a real penalty clause & discount $$$ everyday, if they are delivered late, that stops the way too familiar milking the project & bleeding the customer dry/overcharging... I know the business, very well, fab shops are notorious for that type crap...

 

[Cranky]

For argument's sake - do y'all know what a professional/high-end rest shop is charging for labor/hr these days? In the Houston/TX area, $75/hr is in the very LOW end of the spectrum. 800-1000hrs is nothing on a total resto - I have more than that in body/paint starting with a rust bucket.

BZ

If you're looking, I know a couple of guys that do nice work.....

 

[YY1]

Another thing that bothers me about most of these shows is that they all seem to be "up against the clock" for some reason.
Not to detract from the "milking it" aspect, which I get, but doesn't rushing this type of work, especially those areas that require cure/set time and proper and thourough prep work, just beg for a less then superior outcome, especially over time?

Also, I'm noticing a lot of fairly thick filler.
That also doesn't bode well for the project say, 5 years down the road.

I wish I had a dollar for every $~5K paint job I've seen over thick bondo that cracks and "comes out" after a few years.

 

[Budnicks]

Some people think buying that $1500 or those $5K-$10k rust bucket basket cases, will save them money, to restore {than just buying a car worth $50k} then have to pay someone else to replace a ton of sheet metal, that cost $50k in labor & $5k-$10k in sheet metal materials, plus months of time & frustrations, then paint... Just dealing with slow, flakey fab or restoration shops... When you could have bought a nearly done &/or completed car even, for nearly that price or even cheaper sometimes, then add your personal touches, clean it up, even repaint it & you'd be $$$ & time ahead of the game... IMHFO is probably allot smarter for the guys who can't, won't or don't have the knowledge let alone the tools, to actually do their own work....

- - - Updated - - -

yeah the fake time restraints are ridiculous sometimes, it has to effect the level of quality, I think it's mostly all scripted crap on these reality car/bike shows, it's just to add drama thou, especially for those people that don't want to watch an all technical, repair, building, welding or fab type show, trying to appeal to a larger audience, that like all the fake crap or drama I guess, not just the die hard enthusiast car/bike builders...

 

[Budnicks]

sorry bzadoyn no offence intended, after reading that previous post about costs, I sounded kind of condescending, I wasn't really meaning to thou... I hope it was taken the right way...

 

[bee71]

Why can't these shows just feature working on the cars instead of all the staged conflicts and battles.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Why can't these shows just feature working on the cars instead of all the staged conflicts and battles.

100% agree. And Graveyard Carz is the absolute worst dramafest.

 

[Bruzilla]

I've watched it a couple times, and I don't care for it. I think Wheeler Dealers is still the best of the breed out there because that's the one resto show you can actually learn something from. The rest of them just show you snippets of work being done with no in-depth explanation of why they are doing it or how they are doing it. Wheeler Dealers do both, and they put on a great show without the need for drama.

I still like Fast & Loud for the antics of the guys on the show, and I like a reality show that shows the reality of the car business: you don't always come out ahead!