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For the voltmeter conversion crowd

Nacho-RT74 said:
Sure, as I mentioned needs to be made with known specs of the tools to the testing, so is simple but not THAT simple with just any tester around. Not even just a good one. Need more than just the tester. On this case the ammeter doesn't need to be calibrated per se but backwards, the shunt value needed to be known and used with this ammeter.

I didn't have the patiente back in the days to proceed, so got stuck with the stock old system ( upgraded ) and make this later, since is not just guess the shunt value needed but also wiring mods. I didn't want to sacrifice the stock ammeter either, but 8 years later got a damaged ammeter which I can use the face to proceed with the conversion someday in the future. Including the voltage pilot light feature with the M body ammeter
Click to expand...
If you are worried at all about fires and such as some others are you can just put a large fuse or a circuit breaker in series with the ammeter to protect the wiring. And yes a good micro or Milli-ammeter and ohm meter are required to do a good job. good luck
 
You meant worried about the full load amm and fires etc..? No I'm not. I fully trust on the upgrades made on my car still with 100 amps alt running in the 40 amps ammeter and a parallel path to the bulkhead
 
All this shunt talk on a thread about a shunt-less ammeter. Just dug out the pictured NOS Police ammeter scaled to ~80amps for a closer inspection. The 3592133 application is listed in the ’72 book as standard dash with certified speedometer (Police). To be clear once more, Police/fleet production then had factory bulkhead by-pass wiring to these ammeters. By all outward appearance it looks to have the exact same movement as all the other standard shunt-less ~40amp scaled passenger car ammeters from that time. Never noticed it before, damn if this 80amp unit doesn’t have an internal shunt under those stud heads.


ammeter80.JPG
ammeter80shunt.JPG
 
Nacho-RT74 said:
Sure, as I mentioned needs to be made with known specs of the tools to the testing, so is simple but not THAT simple with just any tester around. Not even just a good one. Need more than just the tester. On this case the ammeter doesn't need to be calibrated per se but backwards, the shunt value needed to be known and used with this ammeter.

I didn't have the patiente back in the days to proceed, so got stuck with the stock old system ( upgraded ) and make this later, since is not just guess the shunt value needed but also wiring mods. I didn't want to sacrifice the stock ammeter either, but 8 years later got a damaged ammeter which I can use the face to proceed with the conversion someday in the future. Including the voltage pilot light feature with the M body ammeter
Click to expand...

What you say makes absolutely no sense. "On this case the ammeter doesn't need to be calibrated per se but backwards, the shunt value needed to be known and used with this ammeter." Tha amp meter is really a milli volt meter with a scale calibrated to read AMPS or in reality, the voltage drop measured at the shunt when the stated amount of current is flowing thru the shunt. Its that simple.....no further discussion or reiteration needed....or look up the operation of a DC shunt in a DC circuit as stated in the INSTRUMENT SOCIETY OF AMERICA's (ISA) book of standards and practices and methodology with symbols used.
BOB RENTON
 
72RoadrunnerGTX said:
All this shunt talk on a thread about a shunt-less ammeter. Just dug out the pictured NOS Police ammeter scaled to ~80amps for a closer inspection. The 3592133 application is listed in the ’72 book as standard dash with certified speedometer (Police). To be clear once more, Police/fleet production then had factory bulkhead by-pass wiring to these ammeters. By all outward appearance it looks to have the exact same movement as all the other standard shunt-less ~40amp scaled passenger car ammeters from that time. Never noticed it before, damn if this 80amp unit doesn’t have an internal shunt under those stud heads.


View attachment 1180239View attachment 1180240
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was trying to get across myself. Thank you for corroborating that.
Also if you look at it from a different perspective the bar that generates the magnetic flux in the meter body that deflects the moving vane can also be considered as a shunt even when there is no external shunt. On another note there are meters with the shunt included when made per specs for a specific purpose....not necessarily mopar....thanks for the chat
 
The shunt-less ammeter design in the initial discussion on this thread does not utilize a shunt in any form, internal or external. The vast majority of Chrysler ammeters from this era do not have this pictured internal shunt. Simply pointing out an exception in later production where higher scaling was required and an internal shunt was added to allow the use of the previous movement design. My perspective is if the bus in the shunt-less ammeter does not serve the role of an electrical shunt, then, by definition*, it’s not a shunt.


*creates a low-resistance path for electric current, to allow it to pass around another point in the circuit
 
72RoadrunnerGTX said:
The shunt-less ammeter design in the initial discussion on this thread does not utilize a shunt in any form, internal or external. The vast majority of Chrysler ammeters from this era do not have this pictured internal shunt. Simply pointing out an exception in later production where higher scaling was required and an internal shunt was added to allow the use of the previous movement design. My perspective is if the bus in the shunt-less ammeter does not serve the role of an electrical shunt, then, by definition*, it’s not a shunt.


*creates a low-resistance path for electric current, to allow it to pass around another point in the circuit
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I will have to disagree with you. The brass portion in what you call a shuntless meter is the shunt....the metering part is the piece of iron imbedded in the brass. the brass not being magnetic only carries the current ie the shunt....the iron part in the middle of the brass becomes magnetized by the the small bit of the current flowing through it and thus moving the iron vane and needle. The size of the iron bit denotes the sensitivity of the meter.
 
72RoadrunnerGTX said:
All this shunt talk on a thread about a shunt-less ammeter. Just dug out the pictured NOS Police ammeter scaled to ~80amps for a closer inspection. The 3592133 application is listed in the ’72 book as standard dash with certified speedometer (Police). To be clear once more, Police/fleet production then had factory bulkhead by-pass wiring to these ammeters. By all outward appearance it looks to have the exact same movement as all the other standard shunt-less ~40amp scaled passenger car ammeters from that time. Never noticed it before, damn if this 80amp unit doesn’t have an internal shunt under those stud heads.


View attachment 1180239View attachment 1180240
Click to expand...

This is new to me too. I had seem this units and the 60 amps one ( there is one right now on ebay ) but never so close!

And I'm agreed, we are talking about the regular ones, rated at 40 amps since the begining
 
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Old Sparky said:
I will have to disagree with you. The brass portion in what you call a shuntless meter is the shunt....the metering part is the piece of iron imbedded in the brass. the brass not being magnetic only carries the current ie the shunt....the iron part in the middle of the brass becomes magnetized by the the small bit of the current flowing through it and thus moving the iron vane and needle. The size of the iron bit denotes the sensitivity of the meter.
Click to expand...

If we part of the shunt definition, offering diff path, is NOT a shunt and there is where I'm agreed with 72RoadRunnerGTX, because is not a diff path but the only one. There is not another option for the power than through the internal brass bar. The magnet and needle is just a response system to the load going throught the unique brass bar available.
 
RJRENTON said:
What you say makes absolutely no sense. "On this case the ammeter doesn't need to be calibrated per se but backwards, the shunt value needed to be known and used with this ammeter." Tha amp meter is really a milli volt meter with a scale calibrated to read AMPS or in reality, the voltage drop measured at the shunt when the stated amount of current is flowing thru the shunt. Its that simple.....no further discussion or reiteration needed....or look up the operation of a DC shunt in a DC circuit as stated in the INSTRUMENT SOCIETY OF AMERICA's (ISA) book of standards and practices and methodology with symbols used.
BOB RENTON
Click to expand...

I wasn't to reply this but... hell... just to be clear you don't understand what I said

ME AS AN USER don't need to get calibrated the ammeter because that's a factory job. I NEVER meant these ammeters don't need to get calibrated under a table rate or whatever, but as an user THAT'S NOT my deal. I need to know the scale and calibration ALREADY made ( which I don't know ) TO DETERMINE the shunt value any user ( not just me ) of these amms needs.

Damn!
 
Nacho-RT74 said:
I wasn't to reply this but... hell... just to be clear you don't understand what I said

ME AS AN USER don't need to get calibrated the ammeter because that's a factory job. I NEVER meant these ammeters don't need to get calibrated under a table rate or whatever, but as an user THAT'S NOT my deal. I need to know the scale and calibration ALREADY made ( which I don't know ) TO DETERMINE the shunt value any user ( not just me ) of these amms needs.

Damn!
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None of my books tell the shunt value....If I had this problem I would calculate it or get someone who can do it for you.
 
Sure I can make it when I get focused on that, but so far so good I'm still fine with the mod made on the stock amm wiring I made. Lot of priorities at this moment to get worried about that now... like finish the car and get it shipped from Venezuela to Spain.
 
Fascinating thread. Reading through all the slap-fights is actually pretty informative. But I have a simple question that is just due to my not wanting to start (another) fire.

I am converting over to the American Autowire dash harness (never mind what happened to the old one, mind your own business, nothing to see here...). This harness requires I convert to a 1-wire alternator. OK, no problem, will do. However it really irritates me that I will have an ammeter in my rally dash that doesn't do anything. I know this will continue to grate on me as I drive the car. Trying to replace the ammeter in the dash with a volt meter that looks like it actually belongs there seem beyond my capabilities unless I could purchase one ready to go.

So, it seems that I can create a wire harness with a couple of 12-gauge wires that runs to the ammeter through a separate bulkhead hole with a grommet. Got that. Question is, where do I break into the charging circuit for the car to put the ammeter in the circuit? Do I break the 1-wire from the alternator and run that circuit through the ammeter? Do I break in somewhere else?

The car doesn't really draw much power, in fact I converted the headlights to a relay system a while back so the 12-gauge wires won't ever be carrying that much load, but I want my ammeter to function.

Yes, I have a fire extinguisher...
 
Jeff Erwin said:
Fascinating thread. Reading through all the slap-fights is actually pretty informative. But I have a simple question that is just due to my not wanting to start (another) fire.

I am converting over to the American Autowire dash harness (never mind what happened to the old one, mind your own business, nothing to see here...). This harness requires I convert to a 1-wire alternator. OK, no problem, will do. However it really irritates me that I will have an ammeter in my rally dash that doesn't do anything. I know this will continue to grate on me as I drive the car. Trying to replace the ammeter in the dash with a volt meter that looks like it actually belongs there seem beyond my capabilities unless I could purchase one ready to go.

So, it seems that I can create a wire harness with a couple of 12-gauge wires that runs to the ammeter through a separate bulkhead hole with a grommet. Got that. Question is, where do I break into the charging circuit for the car to put the ammeter in the circuit? Do I break the 1-wire from the alternator and run that circuit through the ammeter? Do I break in somewhere else?

The car doesn't really draw much power, in fact I converted the headlights to a relay system a while back so the 12-gauge wires won't ever be carrying that much load, but I want my ammeter to function.

Yes, I have a fire extinguisher...
Click to expand...
Give Shannon at Redline a call. He converts the amp gauges to volt.
 
Jeff Erwin said:
So, it seems that I can create a wire harness with a couple of 12-gauge wires that runs to the ammeter through a separate bulkhead hole with a grommet. Got that. Question is, where do I break into the charging circuit for the car to put the ammeter in the circuit? Do I break the 1-wire from the alternator and run that circuit through the ammeter? Do I break in somewhere else?
Click to expand...
The short answer, the ammeter needs to go in between the alternator output/all vehicle loads and the battery. It only should register charging/discharging current to and from the battery.
 
hunt2elk said:
Give Shannon at Redline a call. He converts the amp gauges to volt.
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The nice thing about Redline's conversion is they change the Ammeter to a Voltmeter (and the face if you want), and no additional wiring is required. They make the change in the dash assembly (at least in a rallye dash).
 
mrmolding said:
The nice thing about Redline's conversion is they change the Ammeter to a Voltmeter (and the face if you want), and no additional wiring is required. They make the change in the dash assembly (at least in a rallye dash).
Click to expand...
Yes, he has done a couple for me in rallye dashes. I believe the last time I talked to him, he said they also do the square style standard dash as well.
 
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