Frustrating drum brakes problems

[371RR]

Have a 71 Roadrunner 383. Last year about this time I did a complete brake job. Researched to get the best premium stuff I could find, short of going to someone like Muscle Car brakes. New drums, shoes, springs....the works. After a couple of times driving it, I got what sounds like a growling\squealing from about 20 mph to 0 when braking. If I brake hard at that speed, I do not have it. I have had the drums touched up twice by turning a little out of them and scuffing up the shoes, to no avail.

Also, I had the drums turned for the reason that they have become out of round and create a pulsing pedal. (only turned the drums a total of 2 times) I only have about 500 miles on all these new brakes. Are the parts we buy any more total crap and cheap material. I never had these problems 30 years ago.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Cranky]

Where did you buy your parts? Not from AZ I hope....

 

[371RR]

Where did you buy your parts? Not from AZ I hope....

Noooo AZ! I purchased from a local autoparts store, but I gave them the manufacturers and part numbers to order them. All premium stuff. Can't remember at this time, but they were either Bendix or Raybestoes. They were not the more expensive Centric ones.

 

[kiwigtx]

I can tell you that new shoes doesn't mean that they will fit correctly. I had our local brake Guru "Dr Phil" check all the new shoes for my A100 a few years ago. They were all a mile out of round, and built roughly. A few hours of adjustments, and the shoes fit perfectly. I never thought 4-wheel drum brakes were a good idea, but they do pull up the truck easily, and in a straight line.

 

[Cranky]

Noooo AZ! I purchased from a local autoparts store, but I gave them the manufacturers and part numbers to order them. All premium stuff. Can't remember at this time, but they were either Bendix or Raybestoes. They were not the more expensive Centric ones.

Raybestos is the brand I've always used but it's been several years since I'd done major drum work. I wonder what the OEM's use? My 2000 Durango still has the originals on the back (11" drums) and so does my 97 2500 Cummins. Did you by any chance use semi metallic on the fronts and did you get the primary and secondary (short and long shoe) in the proper position? Not sure if that would cause noise but it does affect braking. Never drove a car with them mixed up but have heard they get grabby that way....

 

[Cranky]

I can tell you that new shoes doesn't mean that they will fit correctly. I had our local brake Guru "Dr Phil" check all the new shoes for my A100 a few years ago. They were all a mile out of round, and built roughly. A few hours of adjustments, and the shoes fit perfectly. I never thought 4-wheel drum brakes were a good idea, but they do pull up the truck easily, and in a straight line.

I've had a few shoes that didn't conform to the drum but not so bad that a little bit of break in time didn't cure. I've heard some stories though. There used to be a shop just outside of Houston that built brakes for trucks and heard they could do them for cars too but didn't like to because of the low profit margin but they were always considered to be among the best.

 

[371RR]

I can tell you that new shoes doesn't mean that they will fit correctly. I had our local brake Guru "Dr Phil" check all the new shoes for my A100 a few years ago. They were all a mile out of round, and built roughly. A few hours of adjustments, and the shoes fit perfectly. I never thought 4-wheel drum brakes were a good idea, but they do pull up the truck easily, and in a straight line.

Thanks kiwi...long ago it used to be pretty common to "arc" the shoes whereby the braking material was ground to conform perfectly. Not much anymore and I don;t know of anyone that can do this. Possibly this is the problem. The wear pattern seam pretty good. I am happy with its stopping power, just the squealing and then, how soon will they get out of round again.

 

[371RR]

Raybestos is the brand I've always used but it's been several years since I'd done major drum work. I wonder what the OEM's use? My 2000 Durango still has the originals on the back (11" drums) and so does my 97 2500 Cummins. Did you by any chance use semi metallic on the fronts and did you get the primary and secondary (short and long shoe) in the proper position? Not sure if that would cause noise but it does affect braking. Never drove a car with them mixed up but have heard they get grabby that way....

Thanks Cranky, did not use semi metallic, just the regular material. I triple checked the leading and trailing shoes and believe I am good.

 

[miller]

Just curious, since I've run into this.
Any chance the brake lining on the shoes are riveted on? I've had shoes worn, or cut too much, where the rivet heads would get into the drum. Makes good squealing though, god awful sound.

 

[371RR]

Just curious, since I've run into this.
Any chance the brake lining on the shoes are riveted on? I've had shoes worn, or cut too much, where the rivet heads would get into the drum. Makes good squealing though, god awful sound.

Nope, they are bonded....but thanks!

 

[miller]

Nope, they are bonded....but thanks!

Lol, evil thoughts from a old man.

Is any kind of wear pattern showing on the brake shoes? Is it even?
Any chance brakes are dragging? Usual deal, after adjusting them, is to back off same amount for clearance.
Short shoes up front?
Sorry...just trying to think though what might be going on.

 

[371RR]

Lol, evil thoughts from a old man.

Is any kind of wear pattern showing on the brake shoes? Is it even?
Any chance brakes are dragging? Usual deal, after adjusting them, is to back off same amount for clearance.
Short shoes up front?
Sorry...just trying to think though what might be going on.

Thanks Miller, wear pattern looks good, yes adjusted and then a little clearance, yes short shoes at the front. Appreciate the thoughts.

 

[Darthomas]

If you've turned the drums and they warp again, they're either dragging some, or you're doing some real cowboy driving just to see how hard you can "test" the brakes. It may take many more miles to fully seat new shoes. Chrysler always recommended arcing the shoes, but I think people gave up on that in the 60s.

Sure do miss having semi-metallic shoes....

 

[Cranky]

If you've turned the drums and they warp again, they're either dragging some, or you're doing some real cowboy driving just to see how hard you can "test" the brakes. It may take many more miles to fully seat new shoes. Chrysler always recommended arcing the shoes, but I think people gave up on that in the 60s.

Sure do miss having semi-metallic shoes....

Wasn't that long ago that you could buy the SM shoes but many didn't want them because they are somewhat hard on the drums. I don't mind using them as I know how to be easy on my brakes. My wife isn't though. She waits until the last 3 feet when driving up to a red light doing 40 and then nails them.

371RR....I see the Centric brand is sold through a lot of outlets including J.C. Whitney and RockAuto. Not saying JCW sells crappy parts but they have never been my first pick when looking for high quality parts and RA deals with a LOT of Chinesium. Not sure the Centrics would be my first choice either as I'm seeing mixed reviews for various problems including squeal. Are they ceramic? Don't know where http://www.musclecarbrakes.com/ gets their parts but I've heard others speak well of them.

 

[371RR]

If you've turned the drums and they warp again, they're either dragging some, or you're doing some real cowboy driving just to see how hard you can "test" the brakes. It may take many more miles to fully seat new shoes. Chrysler always recommended arcing the shoes, but I think people gave up on that in the 60s.

Sure do miss having semi-metallic shoes....

Darthomas, even before I turned them again, I had the brakes a little too loose, so was not thinking that was it. I pretty much stopped the cowboy stuff about 30 years ago and am very easy on brakes. I guess I will wait a little and see if they seat in a little better.

 

[371RR]

Wasn't that long ago that you could buy the SM shoes but many didn't want them because they are somewhat hard on the drums. I don't mind using them as I know how to be easy on my brakes. My wife isn't though. She waits until the last 3 feet when driving up to a red light doing 40 and then nails them.

371RR....I see the Centric brand is sold through a lot of outlets including J.C. Whitney and RockAuto. Not saying JCW sells crappy parts but they have never been my first pick when looking for high quality parts and RA deals with a LOT of Chinesium. Not sure the Centrics would be my first choice either as I'm seeing mixed reviews for various problems including squeal. Are they ceramic? Don't know where http://www.musclecarbrakes.com/ gets their parts but I've heard others speak well of them.

Cranky, on purpose I did not go with the SM shoes, due to the higher pedal pressure, no power brakes on this thing and like you said, a little harder on the drums. LOL on the wife. Most of the time I rarely have to get on the brakes much, as I baby both of my Mopars. Centric drums are about 2 to 3 times as much cost from my looking. Don't know what makes them better?? My shoes are strictly organic and I believe Raybestoes. I should have gone with the musclecar brakes, full set with drums, shoes, cylinders, hardware was going to be right at a grand. There was even the option to cryogenically treat the drums. They claim a large reduction in pedal pressure and the wheel cylinders have a larger volume, which of course you are trading pedal stroke distance for increased volume. Have also heard good reviews on them.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

If you've turned the drums and they warp again, they're either dragging some, or you're doing some real cowboy driving just to see how hard you can "test" the brakes. It may take many more miles to fully seat new shoes. Chrysler always recommended arcing the shoes, but I think people gave up on that in the 60s.

Sure do miss having semi-metallic shoes....

I worked in a shop that had the arc grinder through the 70's.

 

[Dennis H]

www.musclecarbrakes.com.

Got about 60k on the 11" drums all the way around. Shoe material blend has a great feel and performance. Straight and quiet. If you get to the point where you need to replace, I recommend them.

 

[371RR]

www.musclecarbrakes.com.

Got about 60k on the 11" drums all the way around. Shoe material blend has a great feel and performance. Straight and quiet. If you get to the point where you need to replace, I recommend them.

Thanks Dennis.....!

 

[Cranky]

Yeah, larger cylinders will give you more braking power but you really don't need those in the rear. If anything, if the braking system is putting up plenty of PSI, an adjustable proportioning is pretty cool and the SM brake material doesn't fade (at least nearly as quick) on heavy breaking and the extra pedal pressure is usually minimal. Can't remember but I'm pretty sure I have SM shoes on my 66 but I also went with a smaller diameter MC from a 69 Valiant and pedal pressure was decreased. Had to adapt the lines but a local private auto parts pretty much gave me the fittings. Too bad they are gone now as they were really good. Also had to modify the brake light switch bracket but it was minor. I don't usually play games with mixing brake system parts like that but at the time I was really low on funds and had the parts car Valiant sitting there with a brand new master on it plus I started learning more about brake systems. Thinking back on it, that was 25 years ago? lol