Future Valuation of Muscle Cars?

[YY1]

I never liked the term "muscle car" anyway, and try to avoid using it at all if possible.

I like "factory hot rod" much better

 

[69Coronetrt]

Please tell me you're not going to argue about Hemi being the exception on a Mopar site.

I'm not arguing about anything. I'm pointing out the flaw in your specific definition of a muscle car and illustrating why the term cannot be defined.

For every definition offered, there is a contradiction or exception. This is why there has never been and can never be a definition of a muscle car. We all know what one is but we can't define it.

If you allow one exception to a definition, in your case a Hemi, then you do not have a definition. You have a guideline or general rule of thumb. A definition is finite.

 

[Budnicks]

And I thought I was **** retentive....LOL...

 

[69Coronetrt]

And I thought I was **** retentive....LOL...

Did you think you had a corner on the market?

 

[76 Doba]

Add Hemi to the definition then.

Do you want it limited to only 61-71 performance cars?

 

[YY1]

What about big block 2 bbl cars?

(snicker)

 

[YY1]

What about 273 4 bbl cars?

(sincker)

 

[tallhair]

This was a fun read and very interesting. bump for newer guys like me who hadn't seen it.

 

[696pack]

To answer the OPs question, the market for these old cars is and always will be cyclical. They will go up and down in value with time and there are many factors that will and have effect what happens as has been discussed in detail in this thread. The bottom line is I do not have a crystal ball and who knows. The best thing you can do is buy what you like and will enjoy and drive it without consideration as to its future value.

I will not argue the definition of muscle car as it has been argued for years with no definative outcome. I will however argue lumping compacts and sub-compacts into a catagory of Pony cars. Pony cars are ONLY the cars that were purposely built back in their first generation to compete with the Mustang that itself was often called the pony car. Next the Camaro, Firebird, Barracudas, and later E bodies.

Anybody that thinks a Dart, Nova, Comet, Falcon, Maverick, Pinto, Vega, etc. no matter the derivative of THEIR name is a pony car then tey are likely want-a-bees trying to attach themselves (their cars) into another group of cars that they find more appealing.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Great winter thread:kermit: I was hooked as a an young age.Bought my 1st car when I was 14{born 1958}.It was a '65 Belvedere 440 with a 23 spline stick.I have had more cars then I can remember,but I do remember buying and selling mopars for a small profit.A few hemi cars that I got for $700 to $1000,fixen them up to sell for $1500 to $2000.Can you imagine if I could have kept even half of the cars that crossed my driveway????????When I sold my '63 Max Wedge Polara for $14,000,I felt like I got over on the guy.LOL.
I have my 63 Belvedere close to 30 years now.I bought it to flip it,instead I put a GIZZILLION dollars into it to fullfill the vision that got stuck in my head at the 1971 Winter Nationals at National Speedway that used to be on Long Island.EVERYTHING fast had a blown HEMI in it and I knew someday I would have one.When I 1st bought my car,it had a hot 440 in it with a max wedge hood scoop.The words clone,recreation or tribute did not exsist in the automotive word yet.But through the years it morphed into what it is now,,,,,,,whatever that may be:blob1:

 

[Budnicks]

To answer the OPs question, the market for these old cars is and always will be cyclical. They will go up and down in value with time and there are many factors that will and have effect what happens as has been discussed in detail in this thread. The bottom line is I do not have a crystal ball and who knows. The best thing you can do is buy what you like and will enjoy and drive it without consideration as to its future value.

I will not argue the definition of muscle car as it has been argued for years with no definative outcome. I will however argue lumping compacts and sub-compacts into a catagory of Pony cars. Pony cars are ONLY the cars that were purposely built back in their first generation to compete with the Mustang that itself was often called the pony car. Next the Camaro, Firebird, Barracudas, and later E bodies.

Anybody that thinks a Dart, Nova, Comet, Falcon, Maverick, Pinto, Vega, etc. no matter the derivative of THEIR name is a pony car then tey are likely want-a-bees trying to attach themselves (their cars) into another group of cars that they find more appealing.

LOL... yea like 6 of one & 1/2 a dozen of the other... it's all semantics

 

[BIGSHCLUNK]

This has been an intresting thread for sure!

I guess the only "true" muscle car was the "bluesmobile"

My Chally and GTX just dont make it

 

[rrowdy]

I think that with few exceptions, it's all about the demographics. I was fortunate enough to be brought up in the 50's and 60's car culture with dragstrips, street racing a 62 409 and dragracing a 63 MW.
This is not the same world I grew up in where I could fuel the Plymouth up with Chevron Custom Supreme 104 @
$1.06/ Gal and have fun.

Now it seems most of the kids (with a few exceptions) are into their Fart cans and I don't see any changes coming down the pike.
With the fuel prices, a hostile EPA, an administration bent on Wind and solar, devaluing the dollar, things are going to get real ugly. Less people will have enough disposable income to afford such a luxury much less afford the fuel.
Hell just look at what it takes for a family to survive now?

I think that there will always be a market for the higher end investment cars but the run of the mill "Muscle cars"
are going to have to take a hit.

"Just grasping at another chance to be wrong".

 

[snakeoil24]

While the Economy is poor and People do not have good jobs, prices on cars will be down or flat.

 

[Bruzilla]

I'm not arguing about anything. I'm pointing out the flaw in your specific definition of a muscle car and illustrating why the term cannot be defined.

For every definition offered, there is a contradiction or exception. This is why there has never been and can never be a definition of a muscle car. We all know what one is but we can't define it.

If you allow one exception to a definition, in your case a Hemi, then you do not have a definition. You have a guideline or general rule of thumb. A definition is finite.

I'm not understanding the contention that the term "muscle car" cannot be defined. It was defined quite clearly back in the 1960s and 1970s. Here's is Jack Smith, father of the Road Runner, take on it: "Many people who came back from military assignments had a lot of experience in motor pools. They were accustomed to working on vehicles and doing things to improve them. It was from this experience that street rods were born and a culture of performance was built up.

"This culture was recognized by a guy named Jim Wangers, the account executive for the advertising agency that handled Pontiac's LeMans. He foresaw the possible success of a muscle car, a performance car in the mid-sized category, and prevailed upon a sufficient number of people at Pontiac to give it a shot, and the GTO was born in 1964. It immediately conquered the street and became the performance image icon Pontiac needed. The GTO was copied by just about everybody. Within General Motors, the Chevy SS 396 and the Oldsmobile 442 shortly came into existence.


"Chrysler eventually copied them, but before they could do so, Chrysler had to create a plan aimed specifically at the mid-sized market. At the time, the Plymouth product planning group was split into two sub-groups. One group did the Furys together with the mid-sized cars, with the latter a sort of second thought. The other group did the compact and the pony cars. The mid-sized cars just didn't have a home. That was corrected in 1965 when Plymouth created an office for mid-sized car planning. At the same time the company set up a similar office over in the Dodge camp."


So who are you going to believe? Jack Smith or some guy who can't stand hearing his 'Cuda is a pony car? It wasn't until terms like sports cars and pony cars lost their cool appeal that owners of these classes of cars glommed onto the muscle car name.

By the way, I LOVE walking up to guys with pony and sports cars at "Muscle Car" shows and asking them what they're doing there. It spins the newer guys right up, but the older guys who were around when these cars were new just usually give me a knowing smile.

 

[satman72]

Yeah, but... The thing with the pony cars was the smaller engines. Once the big blocks were thrown in, it became something different. At that point it was something else. It was no longer a nimble(for it's time) car, but a brute that kicked serious *** all the way down the road. There was this point that the pony car met the muscle car, and the pony car became a muscle car. Hemi cuda's, Hemi Challengers, Big block Cudas & Challengers, Big block Camaro's Firebirds, Mustangs were no longer "Pony Cars".

 

[Bruzilla]

If you go back through the records, you'll find that engines had nothing to do with the class identification. The dominant class through much of the 1960s was the sports cars. The Corvette, T-Bird, and Cobra were purposefully designed to fall into this category given the two-seat design, and were readily accepted. The pony cars weren't, mainly due to their size and that they had more than two seats. The Pony car market was named for, and driven by, the Mustangs, and the Barracuda migrated it's way to it from the Compact car class in 1970. Dropping bigger engines into Pony cars was not meant to make them into Muscle cars, but to enhance the sales of Pony cars.

The design specs of the Pony cars didn't stop the designers and owners back then from trying to force their way into the sports car market. Cars that are now commonly considered muscle cars like the GT Mustangs, AAR Cuda, Challenger T/A, and Trans Am were all purpose built to qualify for entry into sports car competitions. This is why you've never seen any of these cars used in NASCAR races all those years. The GT-350 and 500 Mustangs were purpose built to meet Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) competition criteria, as were the AAR Cuda, Challenger T/A, and Trans Am. NASCAR was where the big, bulky, mid-sized Muscle cars went, and the small Pony car makers and owners had their hearts set on being classed with the Sports car market. These guys associated themselves with British races than redneck shine runners in the South, and to even suggest their "sports" cars were Muscle cars was an insult.

 

[Budnicks]

I think that with few exceptions, it's all about the demographics. I was fortunate enough to be brought up in the 50's and 60's car culture with dragstrips, street racing a 62 409 and dragracing a 63 MW.
This is not the same world I grew up in where I could fuel the Plymouth up with Chevron Custom Supreme 104 @
$1.06/ Gal and have fun.

Now it seems most of the kids (with a few exceptions) are into their Fart cans and I don't see any changes coming down the pike.
With the fuel prices, a hostile EPA, an administration bent on Wind and solar, devaluing the dollar, things are going to get real ugly. Less people will have enough disposable income to afford such a luxury much less afford the fuel.
Hell just look at what it takes for a family to survive now?I think that there will always be a market for the higher end investment cars but the run of the mill "Muscle cars"
are going to have to take a hit.

"Just grasping at another chance to be wrong".

well said, amen brother.... if it's any consolation, "I don't think your wrong"

 

[RustyRatRod]

What about the fastest car in 1978? A TRUCK. Surely it fits the definition. Faster than a 78 queervette.

 

[Budnicks]

the market for our beloved cars is always & forever changing, period....

- - - Updated - - -

What about the fastest car in 1978? A TRUCK. Surely it fits the definition. Faster than a 78 queervette.

L'il Red Wagon, is a muscle TRUCK not car...LOL...