Gun advice for a newbie

[pabster]

Hey there folks,

I'm looking to buy a pistol, primarily for the last line of home defense. No specific incident inspired me to do this, just a feeling that having a gun available is something you don't know you need until you really need it. :rev_in_action:

Anyway, any thoughts on what guns to check out? I want to do this right- go to a range, try out a few and get the feel for what works for me, take an NRA safety course, but I could use some ideas on what to look at.

Also looking to store this gun as safely as possible, safe being the word. I need a gun safe to keep this firearm where it belongs, out of the hands of my kids, and only accessible to me in case of emergency. Any tips on safes would also be appreciated.

Thanks for the help, I always learn something new on this board...

 

['67Satellite]

Pabster, it's a great idea to own at least a couple firearms. And pistols may be hard to come by in the next ten or twenty years, so it's good you're looking now.

My advice, well I've always owned Sig Sauers. To me, there's nothing better. But they're not for everyone. Most models don't have a mechanical safety, something that i prefer. But many people don't like. I also prefer Sig's double action/single action system, with a de-cocker. But again, many people find it hard to get used to the difference in trigger pull.

As far as buying a pistol for home defense. The most important thing, is that you can handle, load, make-ready, and fire the weapon comfortably and accurately. Don't get caught up going after a certain brand, or caliber. Because in the end, when it matters, a .38 that you can employ very well is going to be better than any other gun that you might be less comfortable with.

 

[70rr-brian]

9mm is probably your best bet. There are so many manufacturers in that space its unreal. So with competition comes reasonable pricing. Taurus makes a decent affordable 9mm that shoot pretty damn good and doesnt cost an arm and a leg. But there are many others as well.

Yeah a 9mm doesn't have the stopping power of the bigger calibers....but it has a lot more rounds you can squeeze in the clip....and under an "emergency" situation for someone unfamiliar with guns the more ammo could be a big deal. What I mean is you get all shaken and couldnt hit the broad side of a barn in one. So the more ammo could make all the difference.

Besides....for a home invasion situation....the sound of a gun going off that isn't theirs is enough to scare anyone off in a hurry.


Triggers locks are probably your best bet for securing the gun. You can buy them pretty cheaply from wherever you buy the gun.

I see you live in the People's Republic of California....Do they even allow guns there anymore? With all the silly $hit that comes from that state I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[YY1]

If you know any friends that have guns, ask them to take you to the pistol range with them and try theirs if they will let you. Revolvers and semi-auto pistols are totally different in the way they operate, and how they feel at different times during the firing process. they both have positives and negatives. Here's a few:

rapid fire- automatic wins
ease of maintenance- revolver wins
shots to reload- auto wins
likely to jam (or not to jam)- revolver wins

That's just scratching the surface.

Fire both types in several calibers if you can.
I'd suggest at least a 22 revolver and auto-
a 38 or 357 revolver, and a 9MM auto.
The kick starts to get really big after that.

For a beginner (and even an intermediate like me) it doesn't matter how big the slug, if you can't put it where you want it.

Be aware that the longer the barrel, the more accurate, but the more difficult to carry or store.

I like to practice with the target about the distance of the length of my living room, as that's the arena it's most likely to matter!

Some ranges will let you borrow or rent the used guns they have for sale.

 

[Ma Snart]

Do ya' feel lucky... punk?

 

[pabster]

I see you live in the People's Republic of California....Do they even allow guns there anymore? With all the silly $hit that comes from that state I wouldn't be surprised.

Ha. There's an indoor gun range/firearms store less than 5 miles from my house, so legality isn't an issue... unless I wanted to buy a fully automatic assault rifle or a .50 Cal. :headbang:

 

[70rr-brian]

Ha. There's an indoor gun range/firearms store less than 5 miles from my house, so legality isn't an issue... unless I wanted to buy a fully automatic assault rifle or a .50 Cal. :headbang:

Oh...so the slow erosion of your rights is the order of the day then. No worries, won't be long until they are all banned.

Nothing to see here folks....

 

[cr8crshr]

And...

9mm is probably your best bet. There are so many manufacturers in that space its unreal. So with competition comes reasonable pricing. Taurus makes a decent affordable 9mm that shoot pretty damn good and doesnt cost an arm and a leg. But there are many others as well.

Yeah a 9mm doesn't have the stopping power of the bigger calibers....but it has a lot more rounds you can squeeze in the clip....and under an "emergency" situation for someone unfamiliar with guns the more ammo could be a big deal. What I mean is you get all shaken and couldnt hit the broad side of a barn in one. So the more ammo could make all the difference.

Besides....for a home invasion situation....the sound of a gun going off that isn't theirs is enough to scare anyone off in a hurry.


I see you live in the People's Republic of California....Do they even allow guns there anymore? With all the silly $hit that comes from that state I wouldn't be surprised.

And Ohio ain't much better either. You don't hear us CA folks knockin' the other States like you all do. So quit it!!! Now back to topic...CA is restrictive on owning firearms but it is not as difficult to obtain a good firearm for Home Defense as others would lead you to believe. You are only allowed up to 10 rounds in any magazine with one in the chamber with any firearm whether it be handgun or rifle. Some calibers are not allowed as well. For a PD type handgun...PD for Personal Defense...I would go with at least a .357 magnum revolver which will also chamber a .38 round. Nice knock down weapon. Semi auto pistols I would look at? The Springfield XM 45 or the Smith and Wesson SD 40. Both are nice, compact, and great platforms. Reasonably priced as well. I have both. I have trained extensively with the 9MM's and there are some great platforms there as well. Taurus is basically the same as the Beretta but produced out of Brazil. Taurus having been licensed to build in Brazil. That being said though, the stopping power of a 9mm is far less then that a 40 cal or 45 cal round in a PD Load. But, that being said, IMHO, the perfect Home Defense weapon is a Shot Gun. I would look into the Remington Model 870 which is an excellent platform and just the sound of it racking a round into the chamber is enough to scare off any intruder. The 870 is used quite extensively in the Law Enforcement world and comes in a vast array of configurations. Otherwise, check out as much as you can before you make your purchase because in the end you have to feel comfortable with the weapon and how it fits you. Good luck though in your search...:blob1:

 

[dgraver]

Taurus Judge revolver, shoots shot shells and .45 cartridges. Will defend your home perfectly.

 

['67Satellite]

I too live in California. And i agree with the steady errosion of our individual liberties. And i'm still sore about having to leave many of my firearm's/accessories at my folk's house in Wisconsin when i moved here. Which brings me to this, California doesn't allow detachable magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds. So just because you own a 9mm, and the pistol has the ability to hold, say, 15+1. Well it's going to get you into some serious trouble here.

Just something to consider, a smaller caliber doesn't mean you have more ammunition at your disposal, and only because of state laws. Of course, if this were New Hampshire for example, you wouldn't have to worry as much about your Constitutional Rights being pissed on.

So with that said, California doesn't have too many crazy laws about shot guns. That might be the best way to go for home defense, especially if it's dark. And the sound of a pump gun will make most men pucker up and turn the other way.

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

I agree if your main purpose is defense inside your house, the short barrelled shotgun is the best bet. Piont and shoot, lots of muzzle flash and you don't have to worry about penatrating multiple walls and killing your neighbor while sending 15+ 9mm rounds at your intruder. You can hang it inside your bedroom closet, over top of the door, keep the shells stashed in a convienant place and load up quickly. PS, I favor the 1911 45ACP as my favorite sidearm.

 

[70rr-brian]

I agree if your main purpose is defense inside your house, the short barrelled shotgun is the best bet. Piont and shoot, lots of muzzle flash and you don't have to worry about penatrating multiple walls and killing your neighbor while sending 15+ 9mm rounds at your intruder. You can hang it inside your bedroom closet, over top of the door, keep the shells stashed in a convienant place and load up quickly. PS, I favor the 1911 45ACP as my favorite sidearm.

Laws regarding shotgun lengths:

If a shotgun's barrel is less than 18 inches, it's illegal.
If a shotgun is less than 26 inches in overall length, it's 'short barreled', even if its barrel is 18" or longer.

I only scraped this off because you said "short barrelled shotgun"

Don't end up being one of those guys that kills an intruder in your home only to be held liable because you had an illegal firearm. Then the perp's family has legal rights to sue you. Sounds crazy....but yeah....that's the world we live in.

 

[ChgrSteve67]

I agree with 68sportsatelliteragtop, a 12 gauge shot gun is best for inside your home as a last line of defense.

I also have a 1911 and its a awesome pistol but its heavy and if its dark its going to be hard to hit anything without a lazer. Also if you are trying to conceal a 1911 would not be my first choice.

I recently picked up a Rugar LC9 9mm that is just a bit bigger than a 380 and crimson trace makes a lazer that attached to the front of the trigger guard. It can be a handful to fire but its small, light weight and works well for personal defense especially at night.

just place the little red dot on the target and shoot.

I also have a Rugar SP101 357 Revolver that is not very big and works well for personal defense. I got it for the wife and she loves it. Of course it also shoots 38 special which is cheaper than 357 rounds.

As for a safe, I have a safe that is bolted to the floor and hold up to 11 rifles and shotguns, since your just starting out with a pistol I would look into a small safe with a hand print or bio-metrics lock. Much easier to open if you need to quickly, they are a wonderful thing and not that much more expensive. I would also get a few ammo cans to store ammo in. They are very good to keep your ammo dry and are stackable.

last note: As long as you buy a firearm, shotgun or rifle from a license gun dealer in CA it will be legal in CA.

Steve

 

[Budnicks]

New papa Pabster, Sounds like the new baby has got you thinking about home protection... A revolver will be the least expensive to get for starters, for a left or right handed shooter... If it's for strictly home defense, a 20ga. or 12ga. pump shotgun {there's pro & cons to either a handgun or shotgun} or a .380 cal. or 9mm semi auto or a .38 cal. in either dual action or strictly gas operated semi-auto, after loading & firing the first round or a .38cal. single action or dual action revolver will be more than plenty to drop an intruder trying to break in &/or harm you or your family, for that matter a .22 cal. bullet placed properly, will also do the job, they just don't have much stopping force if not put in the proper areas, the handgun is worthless if you cant get to it easily "when you need it" or you cant hit what your aiming at, you should also teach your children gun safety, the cause & effect of what could happen, when you feel comfortable they are old enough, I was like 10 years old when I got my first gun bigger than a BB gun, a .22cal. Ruger 10 shot rifle, I was taught about guns & the consequences of touching &/or using them far before that, "education is key to owning a handgun or any weapon in a house with children", that's just good parenting period... "Gun control" no pun intended, in my opinion is probably more important then the number of shots or large caliber weapons, as stated above revolvers are easier to handle 1 shot at a time, cheaper, with less moving parts & less chance for jams, also very easy to clean... I would suggest going to your local indoor firing range that is 5 miles away & check out a couple of hand guns & I would also suggest to check into a 20ga. or 12ga. Shotgun if you get a chance, there's nothing like the sound of a "pump action" shotgun being cycled, there is no mistake what that sound is to an intruder... Years ago now, I built, managed & was a certified Range Master/intsructor at an upscale indoor firing range in the south bay, "Target Masters" in Milpitas, Ca., off Minnis Circle, we rented handguns, shotguns & had instruction on the premises for people to see what type of weapon they prefer to use &/or buy, with the proper knowledge on how to use it, cause & effect... Semi-auto .380, 9mm, 38cal., .40cal., .45acp are all slightly harder to get use to, the slides action can be very tough to get use to, make sure you keep your hands below the slides action many people are injured by the slide cutting the top of their off hand when it cycles with both hands on the gun... Revolvers can injure the shooter also, keep your hands away from the cylinder, especially the front of it, were the cylinder meet the back of the barrel {known as the forcing cone}, the gasses escaping after the shot can cut your hand open very easily... After you make your choice of weapons, you can always have the action & trigger pull, on the gun modified, buy a qualified gunsmith to have an easier &/or smoother/lighter trigger pull that will help you with accuracy, get a sftey on a semi auto added to both sides, custom rubber grips, barrel flutes for compensation/control of the recoil, extended barrels with muzzle breaks, custom adjustable sights with much better optics for easy sight patterns, etc. it is a wide open field for improvements... For the Semi-Auto, I personally like the old school Colts & Brownings, but own other different brands & calibers, I am a big fan of model 1911 & Cobat Commander Colt's .45acp & the Browning High Power 9mm, for semi-autos, Revolvers I like the old school Colt Python .357cal. magnum {can also shoot cheaper .38cal.} & both the S&W N & L frame model 29 & 629 in .44cal. magnum {can also shoot cheaper .44 specials} but I have owned & have been shooting & modifying numerous types of pistols/riffles for 40+ years, I also have large caliber revolvers from .38cal.-.50cal. & a few Remington, Browning & other brands of Shotguns 20ga., 12ga. & 10ga. in pump action & semi-auto... Happy hunting, have fun & buy smart... Try Bass Pro for a gun locker or safe, they have some decent deals...

 

[pabster]

Oh...so the slow erosion of your rights is the order of the day then. No worries, won't be long until they are all banned.

Nothing to see here folks....

I didn't start this thread to argue about gun rights. I started it to learn from others how to be a safe & responsible gun owner. Don't you have anything better to do than criticize posts? :angryfire:

 

[Cranky]

Amend to what Budnicks said about teaching your kids about gun safety!! We raised our kids around guns and they knew from an early age that they were not toys but we also never left them alone with an easily accessible weapon until they were a good deal older. When I was 17, my girl friend's dad was stabbed multiple times and killed because access to his pistol was limited. I never have one very far from me and there's a .45 on my desk right now. Paranoid? Nope.

Also, learn the laws real well pertaining to guns and what will happen if you do put someone down. Where I live, we can get our concealed handgun license and our instructor was good enough to talk about what can happen. I'm glad they lightened up on the laws that were starting to choke law abiding armed citizens who want to protect themselves from ruthless ********.

The first thing you do is NOT to talk to the police.....yup. Anything you say to them can and will be used against you to build a case. That's what cops do. They are there to make an arrest and unless you are a lawyer, keep the mouth shut and let your lawyer do the talking. Also, take pics of the scene if you can before the cops get there! If you call 911 before any shooting occurs, just tell them where you are and someone is trying to break in, and say "I got to go" and hang up. The less you say to the 'authorities', the better off you will be.

 

[Bruzilla]

I've been teaching self-defense courses since the 1970s, and this is not an easy question to answer due to all the variables involved. Here are some general guidelines/considerations:

1. Remember that if you are going to use this gun for home defense, it's likely going to be sitting stashed somewhere for long periods of time. Most people will say they'll practice with it, but practice tends to go away within a few months of purchase, so you want a gun that's easy to use the first time or a year from now.

2. Who's the gun for? Like electronics, guys tend to gravitate towards guns with lots of functions and controls, while women want simplicity. If your wife or girlfriend will be using it, you better go with a revolver.

3. Many people like the higher capacity of a pistol, but the truth is if you can't hit your target with the five or six shots from most revolvers, and the bad guy hasn't been scared off by your first shots, having another nine or so shots isn't likely to help. Also, in panic situations, which these usually are, your initial reflex is likely going to be to fire-to-empty and a 15-shot pistol magazine isn't much better than a six-shot revolver cylinder at that point.

4. What do you plan to do with the gun? I've had lots of guys tell me they use an AR-15 carbine, AKM, or shotgun for home defense, and I've had to tell them that's a bad idea for two reasons. First, if you're checking out your house, a bad guy can take control of a long gun very easily as you turn a bend or enter a room simply by grabbing the end of the barrel. Once he/she has the end of the barrel under their control, they can use it as a lever against you and you're holding onto 6-9 pounds of worthless metal at that point. Second, firing these weapons requires the use of both hands. If you are blitzed by an attacker, you will instinctively be using your strong hand to fend them off. No amount of training can stop that instinctive response. You need to always keep in mind the bad guy won't always just stand there and make like a target, so you need a weapon you can fire using just your weak hand.

5. Expounding on item 4, and the need to have a weapon you can use with your weak hand, if you are right handed, you need a revolver or a pistol with no safety (Sig Sauer, Glock, etc.), or an ambidextrous safety (Beretta or Taurus 92/96 series are the most popular). If you are left handed, you can use just about anything.

6. Never, ever, use a flashlight!!! I keep seeing guys buying shotguns or ARs and hanging "tactical flashlights" on them, and they're about the dumbest things ever! Any flashlight reveals more to the bad guy than it does to you because they can see the beam moving, and where it's going, long before you can see them in the beam. Flashlights like these are for guys entering buildings or areas they are not familiar with, and fall into the category of better than nothing. You know your house. You know where the light switches are, where the shadow areas are, etc., so use your house illumination as it reveals much less to an opponent than a flashlight beam.

7. As for selecting the ideal ammunition, the general consensus is to use 38 Special for a revolver, or 9MM for a pistol. Both are common, cheap, and readily available. .45 ACP offers more energy transfer and lower velocity, which is better in a home environment, but the downside is you're usually limited as a right-handed shooter to a Sig Sauer p220 or Glock 21 series pistols since most off-the-shelf 1911-series pistols have left-sided frame safeties only.

I've used two handguns for home defense and concealed carry. One is a Smith & Wesson Model 19 revolver, and the other is a Sig Sauer P226 in 9MM. I usually practice shooting these guns left-handed only since I'm right handed, and have worked to develop my skills and accuracy with these guns with my weak hand.

One last thing. If you have kids in the house, forget about hiding your gun, or trigger locks, safes, or keeping it unloaded. There is no place in your house your kid(s) won't find a need to get, or look into, over time. They'll find some reason to look in the back of the top of the closet, under the mattress, behind the nightstand, etc., so hiding your gun doesn't work. And trigger locks, safes, and keeping the gun unloaded make them safer, but a gun that isn't ready for action 24/7 isn't much use to you when it comes to home defense. Opening a safe, or taking off a trigger lock is easy... until you have to do it as you're hearing your wife and kids screaming, glass breaking, footsteps coming down the hall, etc.

If you have kids, the safest thing you can do is educate them! Take them with you to the range, and have them stand with you when you're shooting. The noise alone is enough to convince younger kids this is nothing they want to play with. If your kids are older, say four or older, let them shoot the gun AND make them clean it afterwards. Nothing deters a kid's interest in something more than having them see it as a chore.

Most in-house shootings involving kids occur because the kids find that "well-hidden" gun, and their only knowledge of guns is from TV and movies. They have no real concept of what the gun can do, or how to tell if it's loaded or safely handle it, because their parents chose not to educate them and felt trusting to ignorance and luck was a better idea. So, the kids think the real gun is like their play guns or the ones on TV, and wham... someone gets shot. Educating your kids, and de-mystifying your guns for them, is way and by far the safest thing you can do if you've got kids at your house.

 

[mopar367]

I am a newbie to handguns too. But I have a Norinco 9mm, copy of the sig p226. was 300 dollars. And I have a ruger GP100 357mag 6in barrel. Both of these I recommend for either open carry or as a defensive weapon. Not that I can do either considering I am in canada. But your in California so I guess the laws are strict too.

 

[Cranky]

Very good post Bruzilla, but I forgot something and so did you. Learn to shoot with both eyes open! You sure ain't about to take aim and close one eye to hit your target. Also, it doesn't hurt to own more than one fire arm. Right now there's 3 in the house and 3 in my shop....and no, they are not all together

 

[tpodwdog]

i carry a .40 caliber Smith and Wesson pretty much everywhere i go. i have a few loaded shotguns in the house. im not an NRA freek.. just someone exercising their right. I have had to pull it out a few times..( disgruntled tenants).. just the sight of it makes people think twice. im not going to preach, but i do think its a good idea to have a few. do things legally, because if you ever do have to use it, that shows youre not a trouble maker. AND BY ALL MEANS...LEARN HO TO USE ONE PROPERLY !

i highly suggest you look into the "CASTLE DOCTRINE". Read up on it and fully understand it. see if your state endorses it. it states that if anyone uninvited with the intent to harm you or yours or your property, that you have the right to shoot to kill and you are not held liable like the old laws. theres more to it than that . google 'CASTLE DOCTRINE FOR (YOUR STATE). it gives the honest man some rights....FINALLY !