How are you Mopar People Feeling?

[ironherad]

I am new to this forum, but not to the Mopar World. I have owned lots of these bad *** rides over the years, and I won't drive anything else. Even to work. (V8 Dak) Currently, I have a 66 Sat, that I have gone through ; rebuilt 727, 742 Richmond 4:30, a nasty 340 ( In have a 6pak bottom h.d end 440 in my shed, I got 20 miles on the small block, but I miss that
BB TORQUE) new gas tank ,sending unit, brake lines, Tran lines ( I am a carpenter, but I can bend and flare metal tubing) I have a problem; The guy I got the car from (thanks ACME) did the 78 or 80 (f body) disc brake conversion (single piston). Hung rear, manual. I have to get new braided lines from Amazon, a bit longer as the car , on jacks, w the wheels turned to full lock, will pull out the rubber hose. I am not worried about that at this point. But I put all new rubber, metal, a adjustable prop valve (inline tubes), bleed, bleed, for days, nothing but pain. Everything is New, Master, wheel clys, calipers, pads, shoes. It came with a 70s E body power brake master (that I replaced w/ new, cause the seller said that type would work) However, it takes two pumps to get brakes, and there is no air in the system. Do you all think I need a Manual Master? If so , from what car? A 67 B body, 70 E body , a D100 ? Please Help, and if you are in the Tampa Bay area, I will help ya out. Sorry to introduce myself w/ problems, but I maybe able to help with some tech as well. Just rebuilt and upgraded my cluster w/ the 7805 chip and used copper pins to fix the loose connectors, all is good now, in gauge world. I hate to leave such a long and rambling post, but most guys i know don't have modified brake systems.
Thank You Mopar Folks,
Iron head

 

[ironherad]

I am new to this forum, but not to the Mopar World. I have owned lots of these bad *** rides over the years, and I won't drive anything else. Even to work. (V8 Dak) Currently, I have a 66 Sat, that I have gone through ; rebuilt 727, 742 Richmond 4:30, a nasty 340 ( In have a 6pak bottom h.d end 440 in my shed, I got 20 miles on the small block, but I miss that
BB TORQUE) new gas tank ,sending unit, brake lines, Tran lines ( I am a carpenter, but I can bend and flare metal tubing) I have a problem; The guy I got the car from (thanks ACME) did the 78 or 80 (f body) disc brake conversion (single piston). Hung rear, manual. I have to get new braided lines from Amazon, a bit longer as the car , on jacks, w the wheels turned to full lock, will pull out the rubber hose. I am not worried about that at this point. But I put all new rubber, metal, a adjustable prop valve (inline tubes), bleed, bleed, for days, nothing but pain. Everything is New, Master, wheel clys, calipers, pads, shoes. It came with a 70s E body power brake master (that I replaced w/ new, cause the seller said that type would work) However, it takes two pumps to get brakes, and there is no air in the system. Do you all think I need a Manual Master? If so , from what car? A 67 B body, 70 E body , a D100 ? Please Help, and if you are in the Tampa Bay area, I will help ya out. Sorry to introduce myself w/ problems, but I maybe able to help with some tech as well. Just rebuilt and upgraded my cluster w/ the 7805 chip and used copper pins to fix the loose connectors, all is good now, in gauge world. I hate to leave such a long and rambling post, but most guys i know don't have modified brake systems.
Thank You Mopar Folks,
Iron head

If it's old school, it's real cool!

 

[MarPar]

Welcome Iron Head!!!

No worries starting off with a problem...plenty of good guys here that will help you with this one!

(unfortunately, im not one of them! lol :upside down

im intrigued by that 340....

:worthless_thread:

 

[ironherad]

Thank You for having:drunken_smilie: me!

 

[ironherad]

the 340 ain't nothing special (only the block is stock) but it's a streetable build...

 

[ironherad]

Also,
does anyone have any input on the Champion radiators? I have heard good and bad. My stock one , original A/C numbers , (that I had the lower neck moved on) HAS BEEN REPAIRED 3 TIMES NOW, damn caps lock, and I think its time to move on...not meaning 2 shout,
Any input would be greatly appreciated. In Advance,

Thank You,
Ironhead :usa2:

 

[pabster]

Welcome to the forum, Iron Head!

 

[cam383]

Welcome Ironhead:hello2:

 

[Ma Snart]

Welcome to FBBO Ironherad!

You will enjoy this site - Lots of good people and information

If you can find the time, please post some pictures of your cars - We Love pictures

Enjoy the site

Ma Snart

My 71 Charger for your viewing pleasure - More pictures of my Mopars in my gallery

 

[kdtjb]

Welcome to FBBO

 

[Propwash]

Welcome to the site Iron Head...Glad to have you here.

Couple questions I would ask myself in your shoes..

-Was the master cylinder bench bled?

-Does the master cylinder have an integrated residual valve or did you mount one inline for your rear drums?

-Is the power brake booster for Disc brakes or was it made for drums?

-Are you getting full pedal swing like factory?

-Is there enough Vacuum to the booster to support power assist?

-Any air leaks in the booster?

 

[Ron 73]

Welcome aboard!!

 

[fla 66 cuda]

Welcome to FBBO plenty of qualified mopar nuts here,gotta agree with propwash [i have never done a disk conversion on the rear] but it sounds reasonable. Are you using a factory proportining valve along with the adjustable one? Don't know if that makes a differance. I'm in palm harbor across the bay from you in pinellas.

 

[alleyoopmgv]

Welcome to the site!

 

[ironherad]

Hi Propwash,
I did bench bleed the master, there is no power booster, the pedal swing seems fine, and i am not sure what the integrated residual valve (whoops) but I used an inline tubes adjustable proportioning valve. The master was from a E-Body Disc (I think it was for power) It has a 1" bore , I spoke with a tech at Master Power and he said that is all that matters.

 

[Budnicks]

welcome to FBBO...

 

[Propwash]

Ahhhh...Manual Disc/Drum. Only thing that comes to mind with your problem would be air somewhere in the system or collapsing rubber lines, but seems you got that covered. You're right, a 1" bore should work just fine with that set up... A few general rules of thumb to increase brake effectivness.

-Decrease the master cylinder bore size
-Increase the pedal ratio
-Increase the wheel cylinder bore size.

If the pedal ratio is increased, there will be more travel at the master cylinder piston. If the master cylinder bore size is decreased, the piston has to travel further to move the same amount of fluid.

Just tossing some more ideas out there for you.

 

[ironherad]

Propwash,
Can I decrease the master bore (by changing master cly)? but i all-ways thought bigger was better, that's why I was thinking a manual disc master from a D200 ( if it will bolt up) may have been better, however, in retrospect, a hole (like in a venturi, in a carb), provides more pressure on the other end of a small opening, hence a smaller bore, (I think, if I have any memory) as you suggested. I have no idea idea on how to increase pedal ratio ( my pedal seems to be non adjustable) A pal told me to throw out the rubber shaft bushing, that goes into master, (Just put new 1 in from Mancini) but again I am not sure. How would I increase wheel cly size? C Body Parts? Forgive my ignorance, and I really appreciate your knowledge and time. Fla66cuda, just the adjustable one. The guy I got the car from retrofitted the brakes, w/ use parts, said he never had a problem w/ that swap but couldn't get em 2 work at all ,then I went through everything, and replaced w/ new, but it takes 2 pumps....No air in lines, all new parts (everything), I am stumped (or stupid)...I have a lot of years in this '66 but I don't want to mess it up (also the shift tower broke yesterday on the NV3500 in my 01 Dak sport 4.7, went to junkyard today, repaired, and just lost 5th and rev, Work truck),so I may need to make the Mopar a driver sooner than I thought. ( i got so much $ in the Sat , I can't afford a tranny for the Dakota + I wanna enjoy the '66, if I can) I know, It sounds like I am cryin', (and I am ) but I am beat up on this. Would like to get the Sat on the road before it gets to hot here in S. FL. + I may need it for a Daily driver. Thank You in Advance if you have more time and info. Again, Thank You!!
Mopar or No Car,
Iron head

 

[Propwash]

I see where you're coming from Iron....

This guy from MP Brakes explains it better than how I was about to explain it to you, but sounds like you have the general idea anyway:

Decreasing the bore size of the master cylinder increases the pressure it can build. Pistons in master cylinders are specified by bore size. But there's a hitch: The area of a circle (or bore) is Pi–R-Squared. The area of the piston surface increases or decreases as the square of the bore size or diameter. For example, the area of a common 1-1/8-inch master cylinder is approximately 0.994-inch. The area of an equally common 1.00-inch bore master cylinder is approximately 0.785-inch. Switching from the larger master cylinder to the smaller version will increase the line pressure approximately 26.5% assuming that pedal ratio hasn't changed.

As the pedal force or the pedal ratio (or both) is increased, the stroke of the master cylinder is shortened (brake line pressure is unaffected). When the size of the master cylinder piston increases, the output pressure of the master cylinder decreases. A smaller master cylinder piston will exert more line pressure with the same amount of force (pedal ratio) than a master cylinder piston with a larger piston area. There's another catch: Since the brake line fluid pressure is working against the surface of the wheel cylinder (or disc brake piston), increasing the area of the cylinder will increase brake torque.

As far as your rear wheel cylinders, i'd have to research your make/model to see what kind of options are out there. I upgraded my current project car ('69 RR) from 15/16" to 1 1/8" wheel cylinders I picked up at a swap meet. They're aftermarket.

Another quick question (just trying to cover all bases). Are your rear drums adjusted correctly? Excessive play for the parking brake? (handle pulls wayyyy out with not much effect)

As far as the pedal ratio, I'm guessing that you would be pretty limited in a stock senario with your '66 unless you're able to modify the hole location on your pedal arm. Again, sorry i'm not too familiar with 66' models so I don't know your exact pedal arm set up. Moving where the rod mounts to the pedal arm makes a very big difference in piston travel vs. pedal swing.

 

[ironherad]

Propwash,
The rear drums are tight to the point where if I want to pull the rear drum, I have to loosen them w/ a brake spoon, and not just a couple of turns, but I can turn the tire by hand (not to tight). The pedal pretty much throws a straight push in to the bore (not much free play at all). If I did drill the pedal arm, it appears I would offset the geometry of the rod. I did an A Body brake conversion (right out of the bone yard) on my '68 Coronet, 383 ,4 spd, ( first motor I ever built, a 7300 rpm Big Block, many years ago) and had no problems. Wish I still had that one, In fact, I would trade the Sat for one in like condition. I have an affection for those...or affliction...Then again, I am hooked on Mopars. I've had a 63 Dart GT, 3 Dusters, a Demon, a 71 and 74 Challenger, a 72 R.R, 74 D200 4 door, 77 D100 Club cab 400 B.B. and a few others. Back in the day it was about driving' to work and racing. Wish I still had them all.......but.......Maybe a different Master Cylinder, for a manual disc brake car? Instead of a power one? Or is there a difference? I know we just went through this info, as far as the 1'' bore. So I will get more line pressure w/ a smaller bore, but less grab? With a bigger bore, a bit less pressure , but more grab.(i.e. Torque) But I still don't know which way to go. I am wondering if it is fluid delivery? (i.e., the size of the shot, like an accelerator pump?) that is causing this? Meaning initial push? Is there a factory master cylinder I can get that will throw more fluid, but faster? I really appreciate your time and experience, and i don't want to be a PITA, but I can't Thank You enough, still,
Thank You!!
Ironhead