Is my Hemi original to my car???

[Davo]

I own a 1967 GTX with a 426 Hemi. It is a documented original Hemi car with a 4-speed. I want to believe that the engine is original to my car, but have been told that it is not. According to paperwork I have, the ship date of the car is 11-4-1966. The pad on the front of the engine block has a "B H 426" indicating it is a 1966 block. The numbers below that are
" 1 20-17 ", indicating that it was made on January 20 (of 1966), and was the 17th Hemi made that day. A 'guru" told me that this could not be the original engine to my car based on the engine production date and the ship date. I know they did not have numbers matching drive-trains in 1967. Can anyone shed light on this?

 

[5.7 hemi]

Seems to me if the car was shipped in November and the engine was built in January of the same year, it very well could be the original engine to your car.

 

[WileE]

Engine built, then installed in a car 10 months later ?

 

[5.7 hemi]

Remember the Hemi wasn’t available til 66’ and strange **** has happened more than once with Ma Mopar, so it is plausible.

 

[whayden2003]

I'm not the person to say is or ain't. But having a opinion that it is not doesn't make it true. Nor does having a opinion that it is make it true. Most will side with the 9 or so months of difference being the reason this can't be it. But. I haven't seen any records saying that they had a deadline to use a built motor. I'm wondering how these are stored when they are made. Could it have been on a shelf and the stock wasn't rotated correctly and a newly built one kept getting put in front of it until the end of the year and QC says get these 66 built motors in cars. Could be.

 

[moparchris]

All Hemi cars from 1966 through the mid-way point of the 1968 production run had 1966 date castings for the engine. They did not pour any new castings in 1967 until 1-15-68. If you are saying that your assembly date is Jan. of 66 and the SPD of your car is Nov. of 66 it is POSSIBLE that your engine is the original engine to your car. Is that long of a time between build and installation normal? No it is not, but production was high for the 66 model year and pretty low for the 67 model year so there were assembled hemi engines waiting for bodies to be dropped into.
This is one of the problems with the early hemi cars as far as the provenance of the cars go. It is much easier to "prove" originality when there are v.i.n. stampings on blocks and transmissions.
In the final analysis, as long as your car makes you happy who cares what all the "guru's" say. They're probably not driving a 67 hemi GTX and you are.

 

[whayden2003]

All Hemi cars from 1966 through the mid-way point of the 1968 production run had 1966 date castings for the engine. They did not pour any new castings in 1967 until 1-15-68. If you are saying that your assembly date is Jan. of 66 and the SPD of your car is Nov. of 66 it is POSSIBLE that your engine is the original engine to your car. Is that long of a time between build and installation normal? No it is not, but production was high for the 66 model year and pretty low for the 67 model year so there were assembled hemi engines waiting for bodies to be dropped into.
This is one of the problems with the early hemi cars as far as the provenance of the cars go. It is much easier to "prove" originality when there are v.i.n. stampings on blocks and transmissions.
In the final analysis, as long as your car makes you happy who cares what all the "guru's" say. They're probably not driving a 67 hemi GTX and you are.

A second that. I'll drive the wheels off a maybe numbers matching car just like a non numbers matching car. Heard a race hemi in this car this weekend. Yep. It's nice. Felt it in my feet when he revved it.
Sorry to hijack. Can't help it. It was my up bringing.

 

[WileE]

A lot of stuff came out back then, so sure it's possible. I've seen (and have) things people will say is not possible. It is a stretch though, but not IMpossible.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Doesn't seem to be original engine, but what's the casting date? My engine cast 1/19/66 assembled mid Feb. car built 3/8/66. If block cast date is very close to or after car assembly date would answer the question . Have another block cast 1/21/66 and assembled in mid March.

 

[R/T Boy 67]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless that B on the engine pad was a mistake, the engine is a 66 model year. The casting dates etc. Are usefull for guessing the model year on some parts, but not the ones that have the model year series stamped into them such as your hemi block.

 

[NJRR]

There's no evidence that it's NOT the original engine so you can just as easily assume it is as it isn't and no one can dispute it.

 

[Davo]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless that B on the engine pad was a mistake, the engine is a 66 model year. The casting dates etc. Are usefull for guessing the model year on some parts, but not the ones that have the model year series stamped into them such as your hemi block.

If the "B" stamped in the block is for the model year of the car that the engine is going into, and not the year the engine was manufactured, you very well could be right. But how would they know in January of 1966 that the engine would be going into a 1967 model year car? And this 1967 model year car was actually manufactured and shipped in 1966? I am not really worried about it- just curios and I was sure there were a lot of people out there that were more knowledgeable about the subject than me. Thanks for your input!

 

[Davo]

Doesn't seem to be original engine, but what's the casting date? My engine cast 1/19/66 assembled mid Feb. car built 3/8/66. If block cast date is very close to or after car assembly date would answer the question . Have another block cast 1/21/66 and assembled in mid March.

Not sure where to find or interpret the block cast date......

 

[Fran Blacker]

driver's side bottom row.

 

[R/T Boy 67]

The model year series number was not stamped until the model year of the car it was going into was known. Also Hemis were not built in huge batches as were other engines, so it was a little easier to keep track of. If there were internal differences in engines between model years they had to keep track of things as well. This was the case with 68 hemis. But all 67 Hemis should have a C in that spot regardless of the calender year the engine was built in.

 

[moparnation74]

When the castings were set in the yard yours could have had new blocks stacked in front of it.....How many Hemis were sold an in cars in early production? You kinda fell in a weird zone at the release of the Hemi.....So it is possible.....

Key thing to note and document is the history of the car....Does is seem the motor was pulled? What clues show this motor stayed with the car?

I am an OE number nut but sometimes you have to let the car speak for itself.....If we were talking this scenario about 68 and above then I would clearly say it is NOT the original motor....

 

[68X426]

Engine built, then installed in a car 10 months later ?

Entirely possible, and very likely. I've read that the Hemi had a huge over-run of motors when introduced in 1966. The excess inventory was used well into 1967 model year.

All Hemi engines were made at the Chrysler Marine and Industrial Plant in Marysville, Michigan, and then shipped complete to other assembly plants. All the inventory was located at Marysville.

I have seen a photo of that inventory in 1966 at Marysville. There had to be over a thousand Hemi motors stack on shipping pallets, something like 4 high, 2 rows of 4 across, and 50 deep. That would be 1600 motors in inventory. I can't find that picture, googled it a long time, can't locate it. If someone has it saved please post it. It is an awesome sight.

From Allpar:
Street Hemi Production
1966 3,350
1967 1,282
1968 2,428
1969 1,787
1970 1,571
1971 486
Total 10,904

Many of those '66 built Hemis went into '67 cars (just can't find any hard data on the specifics).

 

[Davo]

When the castings were set in the yard yours could have had new blocks stacked in front of it.....How many Hemis were sold an in cars in early production? You kinda fell in a weird zone at the release of the Hemi.....So it is possible.....

Key thing to note and document is the history of the car....Does is seem the motor was pulled? What clues show this motor stayed with the car?

I am an OE number nut but sometimes you have to let the car speak for itself.....If we were talking this scenario about 68 and above then I would clearly say it is NOT the original motor....

I am sure the engine has been out of the car. After I got it, I was going to adjust the valve lash clearances because being a 1967 model it should have solid lifters. I discovered it now has hydraulic lifters and I am sure the cam is not exactly stock. VERY little vacuum at idle. Also, has more oil pressure than stock.

 

[Fran Blacker]

I am sure the engine has been out of the car. After I got it, I was going to adjust the valve lash clearances because being a 1967 model it should have solid lifters. I discovered it now has hydraulic lifters and I am sure the cam is not exactly stock. VERY little vacuum at idle. Also, has more oil pressure than stock.

I wouldn't dismiss 68X426's idea. Check carb date codes , head and block cast dates, and others.

 

[Davo]

I wouldn't dismiss 68X426's idea. Check carb date codes , head and block cast dates, and others.

I know it has the early and supposedly rare Carter AFB 4139 and 4140 carbs on it. I haven't checked head and block cast dates yet....