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It looks like even the car shows on TV are going green with woke BS!

Ironbuilt said:
A base model Freightliner Cascadia when bought in fleet numbers runs around $120,000. The same with an International ProStar. I know this because I am personal friends with an owner of over 4,000 trucks. I bought my first truck, a Freightliner, from him.
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And is that owner not exploring electric market? I bet he is. Keeping a VERY watchful eye.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
And is that owner not exploring electric market? I bet he is. Keeping a VERY watchful eye.
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Honestly, I don't know ANY owners, myself included, that are even considering electric. The industry will need 10-20 years of service to prove reliability before they become commonplace. Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of companies are still recovering from the failed CNG trucks. I am not saying that it will NEVER happen, I just don't see it becoming commonplace in my lifetime. And I don't believe a word Tesla says on their website. They are in the governments pocket, and those tax incentives and grant funds will dictate the final price.
 
Kern Dog said:
I don't like it when things that I enjoy get legislated out of existence.
If the electric stuff does not result in some bullshit law to eliminate gasoline production then I wouldn't be so resistant.
I don't see them both co-existing.
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You didn't seem to mind when fossil fuel laws/subsidies and lobbing squelched alternative fuel ideas? Ah. So it's all a self interest thing?

Fossil fuel consumption and industry has caused ecological damage to this planet. You don't have to believe me. Or science. Ask those who work the resources. Farmers, Foresters, fishing industries. Or are they part of the "Deep State?" Too? We have no choice but to move forward. And it turns out? It's a damn good economic reason also? Just by the improved efficiencies alone. Yes. It makes me sad that an era is coming to an end. But everything has an end.
 
Ironbuilt said:
Honestly, I don't know ANY owners, myself included, that are even considering electric. The industry will need 10-20 years of service to prove reliability before they become commonplace. Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of companies are still recovering from the failed CNG trucks. I am not saying that it will NEVER happen, I just don't see it becoming commonplace in my lifetime. And I don't believe a word Tesla says on their website. They are in the governments pocket, and those tax incentives and grant funds will dictate the final price.
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Have you seen the cost saving estimates? Enough to pay for the rig in 3 years. It will a hell of alot faster than 10-20 years? You of all people should know the cost of diesel per year. That is easily #1 expense.

If they are not considering? I know where my next investment will be. Hauling companies that did.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
Have you seen the cost saving estimates? Enough to pay for the rig in 3 years. It will a hell of alot faster than 10-20 years? You of all people should know the cost of diesel per year. That is easily #1 expense.

If they are not considering? I know where my next investment will be. Hauling companies that did.
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What is the recharging going to cost the driver/owner? It certainly won't be free. What is the life expectancy of the batteries under heavy daily use? How much to replace? How are they going to stop the fires that seem to be all too common in electric vehicles? Especially with a driver sleeping in the semi. All viable questions that NEED to be answered.
 
Ironbuilt said:
What is the recharging going to cost the driver/owner? It certainly won't be free. What is the life expectancy of the batteries under heavy daily use? How much to replace? How are they going to stop the fires that seem to be all too common in electric vehicles? Especially with a driver sleeping in the semi. All viable questions that NEED to be answered.
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What is the average cost of diesel per average work year? About $150k? Tesla is estimating over $100k energy cost savings per year. If even half that savings comes to bare? It's over for diesel in about 5 years.

Long term maintenance is a legitimate concern. But if Semi trucks are anywhere close to passenger vehicle maintenance? Diesel gets clobbered there too. Electric has far less moving parts. I'm not seeing any successful end game to the debate for diesel?
 
Just a quick note: the Diesel engine was invented by a German -- Rudolph von Diesel in the 1880's -- and was designed to run on coal dust. It didn't actually find market relevance until around the 1960's, and ultimately ran on petroleum products (think Rockefeller). Henry Ford originally intended to use electric drivetrains in his cars, but struck a deal with Rockefeller to use petroleum-based fuel. When trying to figure out what technology will win, follow the money.
 
mpgmike said:
Just a quick note: the Diesel engine was invented by a German -- Rudolph von Diesel in the 1880's -- and was designed to run on coal dust. It didn't actually find market relevance until around the 1960's, and ultimately ran on petroleum products (think Rockefeller). Henry Ford originally intended to use electric drivetrains in his cars, but struck a deal with Rockefeller to use petroleum-based fuel. When trying to figure out what technology will win, follow the money.
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Oh yeah. It's funny how electric damn near won the fight over 100 years ago? Trains took an interesting hybrid approach. Had they been 100% fuel power? Dead to the history books.
 
The trains I'm familiar with use a Diesel engine to power a generator, and the output powers electric motors. Your point??
 
mpgmike said:
The trains I'm familiar with use a Diesel engine to power a generator, and the output powers electric motors. Your point??
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My point? Remove the electric motor components? Run like a big truck? Far less cost effective.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
What is the average cost of diesel per average work year? About $150k? Tesla is estimating over $100k energy cost savings per year. If even half that savings comes to bare? It's over for diesel in about 5 years.

Long term maintenance is a legitimate concern. But if Semi trucks are anywhere close to passenger vehicle maintenance? Diesel gets clobbered there too. Electric has far less moving parts. I'm not seeing any successful end game to the debate for diesel?
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Average fuel costs per year is around $50,000. I noticed that you didn't address the fires that are all too common with electric cars. You want to sleep in a semi that may self-combust? I don't.
The other thing that you are failing to add into the equation is hydraulics. Are they going to run off the same batteries? Eat into charge life? Something has to run the PTO pump for hydraulics. Dump trucks!! Tanker trucks!! Tow trucks!! Low boy trucks!! Etc. Etc. Etc. The specialized market that I spoke of.
 
Ironbuilt said:
Average fuel costs per year is around $50,000. I noticed that you didn't address the fires that are all too common with electric cars. You want to sleep in a semi that may self-combust? I don't.
The other thing that you are failing to add into the equation is hydraulics. Are they going to run off the same batteries? Eat into charge life? Something has to run the PTO pump for hydraulics. Dump trucks!! Tanker trucks!! Tow trucks!! Low boy trucks!! Etc. Etc. Etc. The specialized market that I spoke of.
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Fires? Are you kidding? You want to see a list of vehicle and semi fires? Good try.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
Fires? Are you kidding? You want to see a list of vehicle and semi fires? Good try.
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I'm being serious. I can put a fire caused by a faulty wire or an oil leak with my fire extinguisher. You can't put a Tesla fire out with a fire truck. I like how you pick and choose what you reply to. Typical hypocrite!!
 
I don't understand the big conflict. I think we can all agree that the market for petroleum-based fuels will not go to zero. There are plenty of cases as mentioned above where electric doesn't currently make sense. But what is the big deal if 20%, 40%, 50% of semis are electric in the next 20 years? If the tech catches up and it makes economic sense to convert to electric, then why not do it?

Is the concern that the electrics will be self-driving and kill jobs?

Big corporations are the biggest lobbyists, dumping billions into influencing laws and regulations. They are hardly going to get screwed into mandated electric fleets...
 
Ironbuilt said:
I'm being serious. I can put a fire caused by a faulty wire or an oil leak with my fire extinguisher. You can't put a Tesla fire out with a fire truck. I like how you pick and choose what you reply to. Typical hypocrite!!
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Do you have 2 examples of actual electric vehicle fires in the public domain? I haven't seen one. (Not saying they dont.) But I don't think "Fires" is a strong argument. How many have died in vehicle fires? Too many to count.
 
funknut said:
I don't understand the big conflict. I think we can all agree that the market for petroleum-based fuels will not go to zero. There are plenty of cases as mentioned above where electric doesn't currently make sense. But what is the big deal if 20%, 40%, 50% of semis are electric in the next 20 years? If the tech catches up and it makes economic sense to convert to electric, then why not do it?

Is the concern that the electrics will be self-driving and kill jobs?

Big corporations are the biggest lobbyists, dumping billions into influencing laws and regulations. They are hardly going to get screwed into mandated electric fleets...
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I guess as a lifelong diesel mechanic, I am biased.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
Do you have 2 examples of actual electric vehicle fires in the public domain? I haven't seen one. (Not saying they dont.) But I don't think "Fires" is a strong argument. How many have died in vehicle fires? Too many to count.
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Address this...


The other thing that you are failing to add into the equation is hydraulics. Are they going to run off the same batteries? Eat into charge life? Something has to run the PTO pump for hydraulics. Dump trucks!! Tanker trucks!! Tow trucks!! Low boy trucks!! Etc. Etc. Etc. The specialized market that I spoke of.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
Do you have 2 examples of actual electric vehicle fires in the public domain? I haven't seen one. (Not saying they dont.) But I don't think "Fires" is a strong argument. How many have died in vehicle fires? Too many to count.
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Ironbuilt said:


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I looked it up. There has been 40 reported vehicle fires that resulted in destruction of a Tesla car. That is WAY better on average than even today's cars. Let alone the Pinto era. Again. I would stick with your hydronic concerns and observations. Far more prevalent.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
I looked it up. There has been 40 reported vehicle fires that resulted in destruction of a Tesla car. That is WAY better on average than even today's cars. Let alone the Punto era. Again. I would stick with your hydronic concerns and observations. Far more prevalent.
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One battery fire is too many when I am SLEEPING IN THE TRUCK!!!
 
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