Kratom as a pain reliever and a safe pathway to reduce/eliminate opiate use

[biomedtechguy]

Hell. I even did my own Lobotomy as I no longer trust the "experts" with my health.

Wow!

 

[biomedtechguy]

I've had 5 patients become catatonic on Kratom

Important question:
Are you absolutely certain that was the cause, did you get a toxicology or drug screen report? Were there ANY other factors?
Thanks for the input.

 

[f8-4life]

I tried kratom for the first time recently for recreational use.
It had a good sedative effect, and calmed me down around other people.
I have anxiety so it obviously was a positive experience for me personally.
I don't know much about it really, but if its that effective in pain management, then I could see it being outlawed here shortly.

 

[dla4567]

Soooo... where do I get some??

 

[biomedtechguy]

Soooo... where do I get some??

Head shops, online. Check your state and local laws.

 

[NJRR]

While the opioid epidemic is getting headlines, the benzodiazepine epidemic is not. Benzos are medications that treat anxiety, stress, etc among other things. They include Xanax, Valium, Ativan, Klonopin and others. The detrimental effects of over use and over prescribing of these drugs are just now coming to the attention of the public and the medical community. They actually create a long term change in the brain structure that is very slowly if at all reversible and stopping the drugs causes severe withdrawal with both physical and mental detriments. I have a family member who has been on benzos for years and is just now starting to get treatment to get off them. One of the main problems is that there are very few medical professionals who are trained to deal with benzo addiction. One of my oldest friends is also on benzos and he constantly has panic attacks and suicidal thoughts, which are one of the effects of benzo addiction. The rate of suicides of people on benzos, especially among young people, is alarming.

What I would like to point out to Steve is that opioids and benzos are all medically "approved" , licensed by the FDA and prescribed by doctors. They also generate billions of dollars for the pharmaceutical companies. Now, I am a big supporter of drug companies. I think they have discovered, developed and made available drugs that have changed the level of health throughout humanity and extended our lifespans. But, they have also made billions of dollars on drugs that have been very detrimental and caused a lot of pain and suffering, some of which I witnessed first hand. So, just because men in white coats with credentials "approve" something, doesn't automatically make it a good thing.

 

[funknut]

I don't know much of anything about Kratom, but based on what you've posted it's definitely intriguing and I'll be doing some additional reading out of curiosity, so thank you for that.

I strongly believe and agree that there are absolutely motivations beyond science (read: political) when it comes to government scheduling of drugs. If you look at what's on Schedule I and what it is supposed to represent, and then look at the drugs that are currently categorized there (notably, Marijuana), some things just don't make sense. Once something is schedule I it will take a minor miracle to get it removed.

Drug companies know this. Is a drug company that sells pain relievers economically motivated to keep a 'natural' pain relief option out of consumers' hands? Would they lobby the government to make sure it's prohibited?

Maybe not so much an outright government conspiracy, but definitely some back room dealings with money changing hands.

 

[multimopes]

From a neutral perspective, over the years, I have been sitting in a doctors waiting room when a rep from a drug company comes in to push their product. Note, these are "pretty people" (handsome young men and gorgeous women, all immaculately dressed) bringing free samples and brochures to be setup in in the patient areas to help jog peoples memory about their products. There is so much competition these days for health providers. I have even seen billboards along the highway or interstate for various hospitals and such. They are all over the TV, radio and internet. There was never anything like that when I was growing up. Businesses did fine without that until the great age of greed, (engulf and devour), came along. It makes me wonder and skeptical about everything. I recall we had an official tampon for the Women's Olympic what ever team. Then of course the official car of the whatever baseball team to drive the relief pitcher to the mound.The internet is wonderful but there is no privacy at all, so be careful when you poke or slide the sidebar and accidently click on something and for the next week you are bombarded with pop ups about that product or company. Just an observation but beware. They don't sell the "Time and Life Home Surgery" books anymore, LOL.

 

[steve from staten island]

While the opioid epidemic is getting headlines, the benzodiazepine epidemic is not. Benzos are medications that treat anxiety, stress, etc among other things. They include Xanax, Valium, Ativan, Klonopin and others. The detrimental effects of over use and over prescribing of these drugs are just now coming to the attention of the public and the medical community. They actually create a long term change in the brain structure that is very slowly if at all reversible and stopping the drugs causes severe withdrawal with both physical and mental detriments. I have a family member who has been on benzos for years and is just now starting to get treatment to get off them. One of the main problems is that there are very few medical professionals who are trained to deal with benzo addiction. One of my oldest friends is also on benzos and he constantly has panic attacks and suicidal thoughts, which are one of the effects of benzo addiction. The rate of suicides of people on benzos, especially among young people, is alarming.

What I would like to point out to Steve is that opioids and benzos are all medically "approved" , licensed by the FDA and prescribed by doctors. They also generate billions of dollars for the pharmaceutical companies. Now, I am a big supporter of drug companies. I think they have discovered, developed and made available drugs that have changed the level of health throughout humanity and extended our lifespans. But, they have also made billions of dollars on drugs that have been very detrimental and caused a lot of pain and suffering, some of which I witnessed first hand. So, just because men in white coats with credentials "approve" something, doesn't automatically make it a good thing.

True, but pharmaceutical companies also invest billions of dollars and would like to see a pay back on there investment as would there shareholders. My wife is on some of those drugs you listed and they have helped her deal with not knowing if she will be alive next year or dead.
Eight plus years of countless cat scans, surgeries, chemo and walking into a oncologists office and not knowing if it’s thumbs up or down.
How many of us could deal with that?
She takes less then what is prescribed just to be on the safe side and it helps greatly.
Any drug can be abused or over prescribed
The problem I have is not with conversation it’s with people who think they have all the answers and dismiss those who have the educational background as well as the clinical background with years of on the job experience.
To call them white coats and dismiss them as such is the height of ignorance.
Again opinion or thoughts ,general discussion,information seeking, thats all one thing.
I’ve been down this road with cancer and being were we go to one of the most highly rated cancer hospitals in the world,I put my faith and trust in them rather than some internet expert.
I’ve listened to every bullshit phony consperecy theory about cancer and it’s treatments
The same principle applies here. The drug in question may have some good qualities or so it seems but until it’s properly investigated and researched you won’t find me going to some Head shop to buy it. Ridiculous

 

[steve from staten island]

I've had 5 patients become catatonic on Kratom; more on synthetic MJ though. All ended up on an inpatient psych unit. If you try it and it works without side effects that is fantastic. Just be careful as with any drug.

I would like to be so bold as to ask you are you a medical professional? Telling us about your five patients is enough of a warning for potential users

 

[biomedtechguy]

Note, these are "pretty people" (handsome young men and gorgeous women, all immaculately dressed)

ALWAYS, 100% of the time.
I've seen them in my work environment, and every time they look like they just stepped off of a fashion magazine cover.
I've even told a few of them that..in a nice way..

 

[NJRR]

True, but pharmaceutical companies also invest billions of dollars and would like to see a pay back on there investment as would there shareholders.

If you look at my post, I clearly expressed my support for pharmaceutical companies.

My wife is on some of those drugs you listed and they have helped her deal with not knowing if she will be alive next year or dead.

Your wife's situation is not the typical one for the use of benzos. And the benefits clearly outweigh the risks.

To call them white coats and dismiss them as such is the height of ignorance.

Are you saying I'm ignorant? Arrogant maybe, but definitely not ignorant.

 

[multimopes]

Steve, you are a good man & God Bless you for having to deal with cancer, especially in someone as close as your wife. I am not a religious man either but will say a prayer for you both. I don't want to come across as a compete skeptic either, but I work in a hospital and of course we get sick or injured periodically. However, the costs associated with healthcare today are ridiculous even for employees. My problem is if I try to research data about alternative cures, when I am online at work, most of it is blocked or forbidden. Usually it is only the products or sites that provide things not offered by my health system. I suppose it's to try to keep us as patients which I can understand and I'm not complaining but..........We have what is called PTO's (paid time off) used for vacation or sickness. We also have a sick bank which accrues sick time for tenure. However, we have to burn 5 PTO's before the sick bank can be accessed. I had minor surgery 5 years ago and was supposed take approx. 5 days off before returning to work. I told them straight to their faces that I will and did come in to work the following day as I refuse to burn vacation and loose a planned and paid for vacation already arranged. When I worked at a different hospital 40 years ago, we got 3 weeks vacation the first year and 14 sick days. To really sound sick, if you think about it, if I come in to work with a sickness and spread it to others making some possibly into patients, I am actually helping the bottom line! Fortunately, my job has little or no direct patient contact.
Well I have spewed enough here. May your way be successful and your wife recover fully asap!

 

[steve from staten island]

If you look at my post, I clearly expressed my support for pharmaceutical companies.

Your wife's situation is not the typical one for the use of benzos. And the benefits clearly outweigh the risks.


Are you saying I'm ignorant? Arrogant maybe, but definitely not ignorant.

No I’m not saying that

 

[biomedtechguy]

Here is a 50 minute long show on Kratom. It has been used for over 100 years for its medicinal properties, including pain relief.

 

[mopar 3 B]

FDA definitions of a drug as I understand it has to be altered by man of it natural state. Natural supplements are not regulated by the FDA and are deemed no good on count of it. Drug companies can not make any money on it unless altered and thus becomes a drug. Kratom is nothing but a leaf that can be used in its natural state just as a few other natural plants. But lets just start altering them to make drugs out of them for profit.

I am not against taking medications when need but finding something with out lethal possibilities is that possible?
I would suggest discussing any supplement or drug with your doctor. Just incase something goes wrong the solution is not a guessing game.

 

[steve from staten island]

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/kratom
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20160919/what-is-kratom-dea-ban#3
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/kratom/art-20402171
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/dangers

While there may be some sort of benefits yet to be established with Kratom by professionals, scientists, doctors, FDA, researchers, the entire medical community, until that time i would not touch this stuff.
On a more personal experience i will listen to the dedicated people at Sloan Kettering Memorial Hospital for cancer, which is one of the top cancer hospitals in the world for there advise on dealing with what drugs should be prescribed.
My opinion is to listen to there doctors and health care professionals also.

 

[mopar 3 B]

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/kratom
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20160919/what-is-kratom-dea-ban#3
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/kratom/art-20402171
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/dangers

Get the point. Just don't take to many aspirin if you like your stomach lining. Should aspirin be considered an illegal drug? Don't think so. Should Kratom be made available to just anyone? Maybe not. Should one be responsible for taking medication as prescribed? Will someone should be.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Good links SFSI overall.
I looked at all 4. I downloaded the list of "47 deaths where Kratom was found in the descendent's system". The same FDA reported that in over 40 of those cases, there were other drugs in the bodies of the deceased. They use the word "may" a lot.
Some of the articles have a definite slant, much like the "so called" news, but is presented in a manner to push a narrative.
There are quite a few sources of information. Thanks for publishing some that you found.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Get the point. Just don't take to many aspirin if you like your stomach lining. Should aspirin be considered an illegal drug? Don't think so. Should Kratom be made available to just anyone? Maybe not. Should one be responsible for taking medication as prescribed? Will someone should be.

So glad you mentioned aspirin, because acetaminophen, aka Tylenol, has a toxic level of 6,000 to 7,000 mg/day and the way it kills is horrible. Basically it liquefies the liver.