Looking for advice

[DynamicXX]

I'll start with what the issue is and what I have done. Car wont start. 1969 Super-Bee, 383, AVS2-Edelbrock, 4 Speed. Car ran fine last year after I purchased it, car was a runner when purchased, (September 2023), put about 200 miles on it, winterized, (fuel stabilizer added, changed oil, Diff, Trans fluid, coolant flush, kept in heated garage, I'm in Ontario, Canada). This spring, wouldn't start; good spark from what I can see-strong blue kernel; running 93 or 94 octane but both brands/octane levels have 10% ethanol, which I'm not sure really matter's at this point; battery tested a little low, so bought new battery, date stamp on the old one was 2018, checked for vacuum leaks, all new hoses, etc. Definitely flooding. Took carb to a mechanic that builds engines for stock car's, knows carbureted engines, etc., he put in a rebuild kit, said needle (1) was sticking, and the carb was dirty and actually missing part's??? Get carb back, installed on the car, car starts up, runs a little rough for first few seconds, like it is too rich, ran a few times, now it's back to not starting. Slight smell of gas, I can see the gas being shot into the bowl's. The mechanic is deep into other projects and running a business, so wont be able to look at it for a few weeks unfortunately...I am mechanically adept, (built and raced motorcycles back in the day), and would like to fix this myself, but am smart enough to know if/when I need help and will take to another mechanic if needed.

 

[Encswsm]

How are your carb floats? one may be sinking and causing the fuel to run.

 

[YY1]

If it's flooding, will it start if you hold the throttle to the floor while cranking?

My 318 will do that about 1 in 5 times after not driving it for a few weeks.
Once started, it's usually OK the next time.

Edelbrock says to use a regulator, but I don't have one on any of mine.
Do you have a high volume pump?

 

[4mulas]

If the car ran fine last year, and still has good spark this year your issue is likely 100% fuel related.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge (edelbrock likes 5.5 psi) and regulator on it. It is possible it’s starting but running out of gas because the fuel system can’t keep up for one of three reasons:
- bad pump
- or gummed up lines (rubber ones) rom the ethanol in the fuel.
- carburetor is gummed up and or out of complete tune, bad float levels, stuck needle, wrong jets etc…. (especially now that someone has ‘gone through it’. What did he do to it? What parts would ‘be missing’? Which by the way sounds fishy to me that if he’s competent and did your carb he’s not wanting to rectify or go through it again seeing as he just did it. I’d want my customer to be happy.

Anyway, these carbs aren’t complicated. You could go through it yourself after some google school and internet help videos etc….

 

[moparedtn]

I got $2 says todays' crap gas has taken another victim.
Fuel lines/tank/carb issues all directly issued to a car with todays' gas left to sit for a time.

 

[Encswsm]

I got $2 says todays' crap gas has taken another victim.
Fuel lines/tank/carb issues all directly issued to a car with todays' gas left to sit for a time.

its all the alcohol in the gas.. Nasty stuff

 

[moparedtn]

its all the alcohol in the gas.. Nasty stuff

Yessir - eats rubber lines and such.
Come to find out, it isn't even better for the environment - but the corn industry made out like a bandit.

 

[Encswsm]

Yessir - eats rubber lines and such.
Come to find out, it isn't even better for the environment - but the corn industry made out like a bandit.

Yep the corn industry made out and beef prices doubled cause it paid better to sell the corn for alcohol than cow feed.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Get rid of the gas as has been said. I pump out all the gas out of both my cars in spring. Burn it in my DD. Then around May1 put summer gas in, the refiners in US must change the blend by then.

 

[khryslerkid]

Might take a look at the spark plugs for fouling. Maybe even a new set might be in order.

 

[DynamicXX]

If it's flooding, will it start if you hold the throttle to the floor while cranking?

My 318 will do that about 1 in 5 times after not driving it for a few weeks.
Once started, it's usually OK the next time.

Edelbrock says to use a regulator, but I don't have one on any of mine.
Do you have a high volume pump?

No, standard pump. The car started ran no issues before I put it away, so don't think it needs a regulator for no reason after a winter sitting in my garage.

 

[DynamicXX]

How are your carb floats? one may be sinking and causing the fuel to run.

When I'm home end of week, I'll dis-assemble and check for pin holes-floats.

 

[DynamicXX]

If the car ran fine last year, and still has good spark this year your issue is likely 100% fuel related.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge (edelbrock likes 5.5 psi) and regulator on it. It is possible it’s starting but running out of gas because the fuel system can’t keep up for one of three reasons:
- bad pump
- or gummed up lines (rubber ones) rom the ethanol in the fuel.
- carburetor is gummed up and or out of complete tune, bad float levels, stuck needle, wrong jets etc…. (especially now that someone has ‘gone through it’. What did he do to it? What parts would ‘be missing’? Which by the way sounds fishy to me that if he’s competent and did your carb he’s not wanting to rectify or go through it again seeing as he just did it. I’d want my customer to be happy.

Anyway, these carbs aren’t complicated. You could go through it yourself after some google school and internet help videos etc….

Thanks. As I had a rebuild kit put in, and what I didn't mention in my original post is it was disassembled and put through a Ultra-sonic cleaner. I think the fuel thing might be a starting point. As I have only ran 21-2 tanks of fuel through it since purchased. Fuel is squirting out the jet's, no issue there though...Needle's were set, but not sure about the floats...

 

[DynamicXX]

Might take a look at the spark plugs for fouling. Maybe even a new set might be in order.

I replaced last fall. Gapped, etc.

 

[DynamicXX]

Get rid of the gas as has been said. I pump out all the gas out of both my cars in spring. Burn it in my DD. Then around May1 put summer gas in, the refiners in US must change the blend by then.

Weird thing is, when I installed the carb after getting it back from my mechanic, car started right up, ran, took it for a run. Started a few mor etimes times no issue's. Then went back to not starting. We switch to summer fuel here in Canada around May 1st as well. We have 0% Ethanol fuels available which is what I have run in all my toy's, (old cars, motorcycles, etc).

 

[kiwigtx]

I didn't see mention of what ignition system you are running.....I would be suspicious of the condenser & points if they are fitted to your car. Just because you think you see a strong blue spark, it may not be enough to ignite the fuel..... I mean I would hate to see someone ask for the reference tool you're using to measure the spark strength. Eye-chromator doesn't count.

Also, I would be thinking about the fuel pump and the pump push rod - there may be a situation where not enough fuel is being pumped up, and when it is, you've basically flooded the engine causing a no-start.

Pictures.....

 

[DynamicXX]

I didn't see mention of what ignition system you are running.....I would be suspicious of the condenser & points if they are fitted to your car. Just because you think you see a strong blue spark, it may not be enough to ignite the fuel..... I mean I would hate to see someone ask for the reference tool you're using to measure the spark strength. Eye-chromator doesn't count.

Also, I would be thinking about the fuel pump and the pump push rod - there may be a situation where not enough fuel is being pumped up, and when it is, you've basically flooded the engine causing a no-start.

Pictures.....

Electronic Ignition. Intermittently starting I think would exclude a ignition/spark issue, but I will borrow a tester and check. Pulled the line where it attached to carb, and let it quirt into a plastic container, nice even pulses, As too correct quantity I am not sure...

 

[kiwigtx]

Electronic Ignition. Intermittently starting I think would exclude a ignition/spark issue, but I will borrow a tester and check. Pulled the line where it attached to carb, and let it quirt into a plastic container, nice even pulses, As too correct quantity I am not sure...

It is entirely possible that the reluctor gap has closed up....I even had a faulty magnetic pickup in an MSD distributor in a Falcon a couple of years ago. I was able to source a replacement and replace for my friend to get his car running.





This video shows how a distributor can be faulty - spark is intermittent due to floating shaft inside - bad bearings....it got returned for a good one.

 

[khryslerkid]

It is entirely possible that the reluctor gap has closed up....I even had a faulty magnetic pickup in an MSD distributor in a Falcon a couple of years ago. I was able to source a replacement and replace for my friend to get his car running.





This video shows how a distributor can be faulty - spark is intermittent due to floating shaft inside - bad bearings....it got returned for a good one.

Is that a 351 Cleveland in a Falcon?

 

[kiwigtx]

Is that a 351 Cleveland in a Falcon?

Yup....and it goes like the clappers.