New to me 440, need help with diagnosis

[funknut]

Hello all,

First off, new to all of this. Learning as I go, but still very novice. Or if there's something below novice, that's me.

I recently bought a '68 Charger w/ a 440. Don't know a whole lot about the motor besides the following:

- Not original block
- Bored .30 over
- Aluminum Stealth heads CNC ported and polished
- Speed Pro pistons
- Comp Cam Xtreme Energy Camshaft .545 lift (p/n 21-228-4)
- Crane gold roller rocker arms

Don't know anything about the crank/rods though.

When starting, it was pretty hard to crank over. Then once running it was making a bunch of clackety-clack racket from pretty much everywhere, as far I could tell.

I had noticed that the steering center link was up against the oil pan. It's a 699 pan which I now know is a C-body pan, so I can only assume it's the wrong fit for the B-body, which may have been what was causing it to interfere?

I took it to a shop to have them give it a once-over to see if there were any unwelcome surprises. The head mechanic suggested the noise could be the windage tray interfering, and sure enough when we pulled the oil pan, this is what we found:

zoomed in a bit:

Fitting the windage tray to the block by hand, it seems fairly obvious that it wasn't going to clear the rods.

[Edit: bad measurements, the rods clear fine.]

There's a stamping on it that is hard to read, but I'm pretty sure it's "3751238." Googling for it didn't turn up much.

I did a bit of searching for windage trays and at Jeg's I see there are a couple options for mopar big blocks, depending on the length of stroke. Seems possible the one I have is just the wrong part and too shallow? If so, any pointers on the right part for a windage tray and recommendations for a suitable oil pan would be great.

This one looks reasonable to me:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-30761/overview/make/dodge/year/1968/model/charger

Thanks to everyone that's read this far. My final questions are regarding these last few pics, there's a bit of the block missing on the oil pan mating surface:

I can only guess this is not awesome, but would love some opinions on how bad, and what I might be in for down the road. It seems there's enough mating surface there for a good seal, and no obvious cracks otherwise. There were no metal bits in the pan, so I can only assume that means that this is not a brand new problem.

I'll throw in one more pic of the rotating assembly in case it provides any more info/clues:

Thanks in advance for any help.

Clay

 

[69Bee]

That is one of those self-clearancing windage trays, lol..... I see you have aftermarket rods, but can't see why a rod would hit the tray. It looks like #5 rod hit the tray, and the rod number looks like 193 with a 195 cap, but I could just be seeing things. Does seem to be related or at least in concert with a messed up oil pickup. The rod looks funny to me also. It seems to be farther down on the crank as compared to the 7/8 rod pair, but could be an optical illusion. If it did spin a bearing, I could see it going down far enough to hit the tray. As far as the missing chunk; it doesn't seem to affect anything as long as it seals, but if you are concerned, you could have it built up with weld, then dressed, but it doesn't look necessary to me.

 

[khryslerkid]

Rotate the assembly and look it over real good.
Is there a connecting rod stud that has backed out?

On the other hand would you think that the previous owner installed the damaged windage tray after repairing the damage the first time around? (block damage from something letting go in the past)

 

[66Satellite47]

Sure looks like a rod let go & it just got slapped back together.

 

[funknut]

Thanks guys, I think you're right about it being an older issue. I may have given some bad info earlier about the windage tray not fitting. I snugged the windage tray down and it does rotate (man these things are hard to turn!) without hitting the windage tray. When I checked earlier it was based on some bad measurements I took (noob). So I suppose something came apart in the past, and was replaced, but the old windage tray was used.

Damage to the windage tray matches #6, so I took a close up of the #6 rod end and you can see some amount of wear on one corner.

Maybe that's not easy to see, but there's some wear on the corner of the nut that I don't see on any of the other rod bolt nuts.

So the good news is it's not contacting the windage tray, but I guess that also means I haven't found the source of the clacking noise. I'll take off the #6 rod end cap and see if there's any damage there.

Thanks everyone!

 

[440beep]

As for the clanking noise, if you have an auto tranny and it has the dust shield on the front of it, look and see if perhaps it is hitting the torque converter/flex plate bolts. Remove the dust shield and look for scratch marks where a bolt might be hitting it as the converter rotates. By having the incorrect oil pan on there, that might be causing a problem for the dust shield fitting properly.

 

[khryslerkid]

I'd be showing those pictures to the person you recently bought it from and be asking "what's up!"

 

[funknut]

Sure looks like a rod let go & it just got slapped back together.

Would the rod/rod end cap be more chewed up after something like that? If this did happen I'm guessing(hoping) there would be some signs of damage elsewhere?

 

[funknut]

I'd be showing those pictures to the person you recently bought it from and be asking "what's up!"

Heard back from the previous owner. He says he bought the engine 'freshly rebuilt' from a shop in 2011 and replaced the top end but never had the pan off.

I may call the shop to see what they can tell me, but who knows what the truth is. :angry:

 

[khryslerkid]

Exactly.

Well you have the pan off so you can do a rod and main bearing and crank inspection. Replace the bent up windage tray. Maby look for a better fitting pan.

You'll make it right...

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Waiting to see how that rod bearing looks. Also check the converter bolts,if one backs out enough it contacts the block sounding like a rod knock.
I would also take a look at the rockers for proper fit and that they are tight when both valves are closed. Are the lifters solid,roller or hydrolic?

 

[funknut]

Thanks everyone. Will definitely report back (with pictures!) once I am able to inspect the bearings and converter bolts. Valve covers are off but have not fiddled with rockers yet. The rockers are Crane Gold roller 1.5s and the cam is a pretty aggressive hydraulic flat tappet (Comp Cam Xtreme Energy Camshaft .545 lift (p/n 21-228-4))

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=712&sb=0

 

[66Satellite47]

Would the rod/rod end cap be more chewed up after something like that? If this did happen I'm guessing(hoping) there would be some signs of damage elsewhere?

It's also possible something very solid got down there and smashed the windage tray & took the chunk out of the block without hurting the rod. A mystery.

 

[funknut]

Update: Checked the #6 rod bearing and journal and looks good to me, no signs of scoring that I could tell. The mechanic helping me said it looks 'barely broke in.' Pulled the main caps one at a time and everything looked about the same. Will check the remaining rods bearings before the oil pan goes on, but I don't expect any surprises. Bores look smooth with no signs of scoring.

So, big sigh of relief there. Looks like the windage tray and block damage were from a previous life.

I've been replacing many, many bolts and missing washers as I go. Here's one of the more annoying ones:

Which one isn't a bellhousing bolt? Previous owner had installed the fine thread one in the lower pass. side. If you look at my original post, in one of the pics you can see it sticking out. Luckily not too much damage. A few mins with a tap, and all cleaned up. New bolt bites great.

Checked the TC bolts and those are nice and snug. Will be a few days before I can get back to the car, button it up, and see if the rattle is gone.