question for electricians on home project

[1 Wild R/T]

It's when the ears don't grab..then you get your wiggly piece of **** . I'm learning from this thread.
I give it;

Seen that, most tile guys aren't electricians...But they can be artists...

 

[beanhead]

It's when the ears don't grab..then you get your wiggly piece of **** . I'm learning from this thread.
I give it;

Yeah, I know....electricians always come in last and have to deal with the "other trades" (a.k.a. meatheads!) mistakes. In this case tile guys that cut the box opening too big....
To have a successful installation in any situation you have to know how to adapt and overcome...
I've been in the biz 25 years and even though residential work is brain-dead easy, I hate doing it! Even on my own house.

 

[Palmer]

going to do a backsplash in the kitchen, are there spacers that are made to compensate for the tile thickness so the outlets and switches are at the proper depth.

Hey Dan I do tile for a living. What you need to do is cut the tile so that the "ears" of the receptacles sit on the tile cut(when you cut the tile in a U shape). You'll use extended screws, I use 1 ¼" drywall screws or you can get machine bolts to match the original.

Also, if you have any GFCI, you'll want to notch a small hole on top and bottom for the plate screws to go through(otherwise it will push the plate cover out when you go to put the plates on).

 

[beanhead]

Hey Dan I do tile for a living. What you need to do is cut the tile so that the "ears" of the receptacles sit on the tile cut(when you cut the tile in a U shape). You'll use extended screws, I use 1 ½" drywall screws or you can get machine bolts to match the original.

Thank you!
A tile guy that knows what he's doing. I wish they were all like you!

 

[moparmarks]

I used mud rings when I prewired houses for built-in home theater and multi-room stereo systems. They can be used without a J-box for low voltage only. What @CarolinaCharger is talking about looks like this:

View attachment 1475080

These work great and are Code approved and UL listed and are cheap. Flash or fire rings. Are made just for what the OP is doing.

 

[moparmarks]

I've always heard them called mud rings... And probably 75% of tile installs don't have them, just spacers like Dan was referring to.... View attachment 1475077

Those are for 4" sq. boxes. Mostly used in commercial and industrial. Mud rings or tile rings depending on which style.

 

[moparmarks]

View attachment 1475079

I've made those by coiling 14ga. solid around my 3/16" round shank screwdriver. Old sparky trick.

 

[moparmarks]

Yeah, I know....electricians always come in last and have to deal with the "other trades" (a.k.a. meatheads!) mistakes. In this case tile guys that cut the box opening too big....
To have a successful installation in any situation you have to know how to adapt and overcome...
I've been in the biz 25 years and even though residential work is brain-dead easy, I hate doing it! Even on my own house.

I did heavy commercial, industrial and systems mostly for the first 25 years or so and then I really downsized going to mostly residential for the last 7 years. I can't stand housing wiring. So damn boring. Same here, don't even like doing my own.

 

[Palmer]

Thank you!
A tile guy that knows what he's doing. I wish they were all like you!

We're a rare breed... There ain't many of us left lol

 

[demonram]

Hey Dan I do tile for a living. What you need to do is cut the tile so that the "ears" of the receptacles sit on the tile cut(when you cut the tile in a U shape). You'll use extended screws, I use 1 ½" drywall screws or you can get machine bolts to match the original.

Also, if you have any GFCI, you'll want to notch a small hole on top and bottom for the plate screws to go through(otherwise it will push the plate cover out when you go to put the plates on).

Had a company the customer hired for granite tops and full backsplash, after we did the cabinets. After they were done, the GFCI on the wall kept kicking that fed the island. After checking everything on the island and the next inline wall outlet. We found the idiot used 2” drywall screws. One went through the box and nicked one of the neutral wires. It was a bear to find it, the point just hit it. Why use drywall screws? You can get 6-32 screws in any length you need, and you shouldn’t use drywall screws in a metal or plastic box.

 

[Triplegreen500]

Whenever I tile around an outlet box, I cut the tile too big (i.e. small hole for the box) by 1/4" or 1/8" (ish), so I can dremel it to fit as needed. I like the box flush with the tile backer, and the tile covering the face of the box. That way I can dremel the screw holes as needed, the ears have something to grab on, and nothing wiggles.

You can always grind tile away; it's tough to add it back in!

 

[Palmer]

Had a company the customer hired for granite tops and full backsplash, after we did the cabinets. After they were done, the GFCI on the wall kept kicking that fed the island. After checking everything on the island and the next inline wall outlet. We found the idiot used 2” drywall screws. One went through the box and nicked one of the neutral wires. It was a bear to find it, the point just hit it. Why use drywall screws? You can get 6-32 screws in any length you need, and you shouldn’t use drywall screws in a metal or plastic box.

Well seeing as I've installed over 1000 backsplashes with 1 ¼ screws(I just measured it), that never make it through the back of a plastic box, I'd say I might know what I'm doing. I would imagine a 2 inch screw would be a bad idea. I do not carry that size.

I have used 6-32 extended bolts for a while, until someone had already used drywall screws in a box on the whole entire backsplash, ruined threads... And now a 45 min trip to Lowe's to get drywall screws, and in a world where you need to make money and not waste time, in-comes 1 ¼ screws.

 

[moparmarks]

Electrical inspectors will red tag rock, deck or wood screws being used where machine screws are to be used.

 

[demonram]

Well seeing as I've installed over 1000 backsplashes with 1 ¼ screws(I just measured it), that never make it through the back of a plastic box, I'd say I might know what I'm doing. I would imagine a 2 inch screw would be a bad idea. I do not carry that size.

I have used 6-32 extended bolts for a while, until someone had already used drywall screws in a box on the whole entire backsplash, ruined threads... And now a 45 min trip to Lowe's to get drywall screws, and in a world where you need to make money and not waste time, in-comes 1 ¼ screws.

I understand the problem it caused you but as moparmarks wrote, it is against code. If you think about it, what you’re doing now, will cause the same problem for the next electrician. The 2” screws he used were for a 3/4 thick granite. It didn’t go through the back of the box, just through the screw mounting area, in the box. You could have used 8-32 machine screws. I know the outlet hole is small but I’ve just worked it a bit and it works. Take care sir.

 

[SlingLow]

Electrical inspectors will red tag rock, deck or wood screws being used where machine screws are to be used.

We don't need no stinking inspectors!!!

 

[Palmer]

I understand the problem it caused you but as moparmarks wrote, it is against code. If you think about it, what you’re doing now, will cause the same problem for the next electrician. The 2” screws he used were for a 3/4 thick granite. It didn’t go through the back of the box, just through the screw mounting area, in the box. You could have used 8-32 machine screws. I know the outlet hole is small but I’ve just worked it a bit and it works. Take care sir.

I'll be sure to DM you on the next 1000 for assistance. Thanks

 

[demonram]

I'll be sure to DM you on the next 1000 for assistance. Thanks

There’s no need to get upset, I’m not cutting you in anyway. I’m just saying, there’s a different way. I don’t care what you do, not my job. I back charged the granite guy, for the work it took to fix what his guy did, it cost him, 230 bucks for my electrician to find it and fix it.