Rotating Headlight relay modification.

1966-1967 Dodge Charger Forum

  1. onlyone

    onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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    I have not installed this yet.
    Let me know if I have any of the contacts wrong or other feedback.
    I'll go ahead and post it because I see some people are asking about relays.
    (Don't exist apparently)
    It uses the same Bosch relays that "we" use for the headlight power supply mod to eliminate the amp meter feed.
    (I'm doing that as well)
    I THINK I may have found a cost effective limit switch that will work from a major manufacture.
    I'll post back if I find that limit switch will work.
    It should.
    Here's the explanation and what you will need.

    I have added dedicated left and right open and close relays.
    They are N/O relays.
    The control relay is N/C.


    This way the first motor that completes the open/close function will not continue to have power supplied to it by a single relay as it did before. As it came from the factory the open and close relays had to drive both motors till both limit switches were open.


    With the Bosch relays there are both NC and NO contacts. Now when one of the open relays drops out because the upper limit switch opens, that unused motor drive power can be used to work two other relays I’ve added for the indicator light. (No extra power required for these two relays.)

    When the headlights are turned on power goes to the green light and then to ground via 30/87 on the indicator control relays.

    The green light stays on till both motor relays drop out.

    When power is supplied to both light control relays by the de-energized open control relays, the ground(s) are taken off of the indicator light via contacts 30 to 87 on the light control relays.


    I have moved the override from the ground side of the closing relay(s) to the power side.

    This has the same function and will prevent the closing relay(s) from picking.

    Bosch 332209150 Relay

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010AH6YM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K7CZVJU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1



    concealed headlight.jpg draft headlights new relays - - INDIDCATOR LT.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
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    • Yatzee

      Yatzee Well-Known Member

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      You're a damn genius and I like your design but I fear it a little deep for a lot of people. I have always been a big fan of using relays to control and "off-load" high amp circuits or any circuit that requires the use of sensors or multiple control switches. Nice design.
       
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      • onlyone

        onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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        Well, I just had to make a change in the above text.
        I was in a hurry at lunch at work and got the description of the relay contacts backwards.
        I've corrected that. (N/C on the control relay)
        I gave this draft to my "buddies" at work and asked them to double check the contact connections I have drawn in the schematics.
        Of course, they haven't done it yet.

        I know this may be more than most people want.
        But I think it is a big improvement and all they have to do is put wires like I've drawn it
        I've uploaded some that I "cleaned" up to show just the wires only
        And they can ask for help.
        I did it simply because I'm upgrading the wiring anyway.
        I have had the wiring harness out of the car and I haven't noticed the circuit breaker yet. I wonder where they hid it.
        I'm going to eliminate that goofy factory small pin connector on the drivers fender when I do the headlight power mod.
        Now here's another thing I'm curious about.
        When the original relays are removed, there will be 6 holes.
        That will be the correct number of holes for the six relays in my prints.
        For reference they are closing relay, control relay, opening relay.
        That is left to right.
        Let's reserve judgement on me being a genius until other people have looked at this and see if they can find some problem with it.:)
        I can't see any.
         
        Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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        • onlyone

          onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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          67 charger instrument panel page 1.JPG 67 charger instrument panel page 2.JPG 67 charger engine final modified.jpg
           
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          • onlyone

            onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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            I just found out the prints weren't on the post.
            I guess since my edit.
            Sorry.
            Here again.

            draft headlights new relays - - INDIDCATOR LT.jpg
             
            Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
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            • ODZKing

              ODZKing Well-Known Member

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              The breaker is behind the driver kick panel.
              What exactly is the upgrade. Is it just the relays or wiring as well?
               
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              • onlyone

                onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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                I've completely gutted the car and just don't remember seeing it.
                But I've been working on it for 2 or 3 years now and may have just missed it.
                We pulled all kinds of circuit breakers out of aircraft for modifications. Got boxes full of them . That's what I'll put in anyway. Good ones.
                The prints I've drawn and posted are for complete rewire.
                Does the explanation I posted help when you compare it to the old print?
                There will obviously have to be wires added no matter what is done.
                But I will probably use as much of the original wire as I can.
                Just put the new connectors on some old wires at the glove box.
                The limit switches are what is hard.
                I'll try and press ahead on finding cost effective replacements.
                 
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                • ODZKing

                  ODZKing Well-Known Member

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                  Topher makes new versions. Contact him fo rthe switches. http://headlightmotorman.webs.com/
                   
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                  • tomlin

                    tomlin Well-Known Member

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                    I love your circuit design. It got me thinking conceptually. I would love to apply that circuit to a PLC with a I/O card. I am not sure if I am quite capable of.pulling it off? I have programmed a few plc'using ladder logic.
                     
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                    • onlyone

                      onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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                      You do voodoo?:eek:

                      Ah HA!
                      That's where they hid it.
                      So I would overlook it.
                      Come out , Come out where ever you are.
                      The later A body prints have "locations" on the connectors and such.
                      The 67 prints are a jumbled mess and I don't recall seeing locations on things.

                      So it's 30 Amp.
                      Looks like it had to protect 14 AWG wire. (L27D and others)
                      I don't know what the draw or inrush would be on the motors.
                      But wouldn't you know it, most of my breakers are 15 AMP.
                      (Which is pretty standard to protect 14 anyway)
                      Not a 30 in the whole bunch of them.
                      Since I have them, I'll probably give one a try and see if it has nuisance trips before buying a bigger (Chinese?) one.
                      Upgrading the 14 wire would also be a smart move to decrease voltage drop.
                      This thread will go on a while.
                      The popcorn may get stale.

                      A.jpg B.jpg C.jpg D.jpg E.jpg F.jpg
                       
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                      • ODZKing

                        ODZKing Well-Known Member

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                        I know, interesting place for it I thought at first. Then I thought, better than under the dash I guess.
                        I went to NAPA and found the exact breaker and simply zip tied it to the mounting bracket. Been there since 04.
                         
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                        • onlyone

                          onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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                          This might help with your very valid concern.
                          The only caveat is I haven't put it in yet.
                          It will work, in theory,.... if I haven't gotten anything wrong on these prints.
                          Posting again to let people know I've got this in the pipeline but it might take me a while to get it tested as drawn.
                          I hope to find no errors when I'm installing it.
                          I found an error in my original print when I was doing this new work up.
                          The contacts were marked incorrectly on the Light Control Relays.
                          I've got three cars to work on at the moment so keep the popcorn handy.
                          I still plan to mount all the new relays where the old ones were.
                          Looks like enough room. I''ll have pictures.


                          Following Explaination hopefully is a little clearer from the OP
                          And corrected for the Light Control Relay contacts.



                          I have added dedicated left and right open and close relays.

                          This way the first motor that completes the open/close function will not continue to have power supplied to it by a single relay as it did before. As it came from the factory the open and close relays had to drive both motors till both limit switches were open.


                          With the Bosch relays there are both NC and NO contacts. Now when one of the open relays drops out because the upper limit switch open that unused motor drive power can be used to work two Light Control Relays that I’ve added for the indicator light.

                          When the headlights are turned on power goes to the Doors Not Fully Open green light and then to ground via 30/87A on both of the indicator control relays.



                          When power is supplied to both of the Light Control Relays by the de-energized Left and Right Open Control Relays, the ground(s) are taken off of the green indicator light via opening contacts 30 to 87A on the Light Control Relays. This turn off the green light.


                          I have moved the override from the ground side of the closing relay(s) to the power side.

                          This has the same function as before in that it will prevent the closing relay(s) from picking when in “override” and the close relays will not pick.


                          By way of clarification the override switch must be “open” to override and not close the headlights.

                          That is labeled as the “off” position on the prints. This seems counterintuitive in the terminology.

                          Wire modification instruction follow here......" by the numbers".
                          And I went by the factory prints.
                          I did not modify the second factory prints because those are for "reference".



                          NOTE: The colored lines in the new diagram are not actual wire colors. They are only to represent wires that will have to be added by you. The black colored lines represent existing wires that are color coded in the factory prints. The wire numbers on the prints are in the factory wiring chart key from which the actual wire color in the car can be determined.

                          The first 4 steps will be performed under the hood and involve running dedicated wires for the right side headlight door operation.





                            • Remove L26 (B) from Left Closing Limit Switch. Splice a wire to it from under the hood area and run the new, longer wire to the Right Close Relay contact 86. (It will be too short otherwise.)
                            • Similarly, remove wire L28 (B) from the “Left Motor” connection and reroute it to the new Right Open Relay contact 87. (Splice is necessary as well for length)
                            • Also remove L31 (B) from the “Left Motor” connection and route it to the new Right Close Relay contact 87. (Splice of this wire again is necessary for length).
                            • Also remove L24B from the Left Open Limit Switch connection and route it to the new Right Open Relay contact 86. (Splice this wire again as necessary for length)
                            • Remove wire L26 from the Rotating Headlight Control Switch and route this wire to the new Left Close Relay contact 86. This wire probably will have to be spliced and lengthened reach the new Left Close Relay.
                            • Install a new wire from the now vacant terminal on the Rotating Headlight Control Switch to the new Right Close Relay contact 85 while adding a jumper wire from the Right Close Relay contact 85 to the new Left Close Relay contact 85.
                            • At the new relays, connect existing wire L25 to the new Control Relay contact 87A.
                            • At the new relays, connect existing wire L31 to the new Left Close Relay contact 87.
                            • At the new relays, connect existing wire L27B to the new Right Close Relay contact 30 and install a new jumper wire from the new Right Close Relay contact 30 to the new Left Close Relay contact 30.
                            • At the new relays, connect existing wire L27C to the new Control Relay contact 30.
                            • At the new relays, connect existing wire L27A to the new Left Open Relay contact 30 and install a new jumper wire from the new Left Open Relay contact 30 to the new Right Open Relay contact 30.
                            • At the new relays, connect existing wire L29 to the new Control Relay contact 86 and install a new jumper (or use existing jumper wire L30) from the new Control Relay contact 86 to the new Left Open Relay contact 85.
                            • At the new relays, install a new jumper wire between the new Left Open Relay contact 85 to the new Right Open Relay contact 85.
                            • At the new relays, connect existing wire L24 to the new LT. Open Relay contact 86.
                            • At the new relays, install existing wire L28 to the new Left Open Relay contact 87.
                            • At the new relays, install existing wire L23 to the new LT (Light) Control Relay 1 contact 30 and install a new jumper from the new LT (Light) Control Relay contact 30 to the new LT (Light) Control Relay 2 contact 30.
                            • At the new relays, use new wire and connect both the new (Light) Control Relay 1 and (Light) Control Relay 2 contacts 87A to ground.
                            • At the new relays, use new wire and connect the new (Light) Control Relay 1 and (Light) Control Relay 2 contacts 85 to ground.
                            • At the new relays, use new wire and connect the (Light) Control Relay 1 contact 86 to the LT. Open Relay contact 87A.
                            • At the new relays, use new wire and connect the (Light) Control Relay 2 contact 86 to the RT. Open Relay contact 87A.
                          draft headlights new relays - - INDIDCATOR LT (2).jpg 67 charger engine final modified.jpg 67 charger instrument panel page 1.JPG

                          67 charger instrument panel page 2.JPG

                          headlights new relays.jpg
                           
                          Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
                        • A383Wing

                          A383Wing Well-Known Member

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                          • onlyone

                            onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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                            • someoneanywhere

                              someoneanywhere Well-Known Member

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                              GREAT !!!!!
                              Now if we could work up headlight motor replacements using say 12-14.4 v cordless drill gearboxes and motors!? Lotsa´ torque, easy to reverse, Dewalt-Hitachi, etc.. used drills are everywhere and even new replacement motors are easily bought. I've long thought it should be doable and still fit in the old motor housing (can).
                               
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                              • onlyone

                                onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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                                Sorry for the delay.
                                In the last few weeks I had to put a new roof on and some structural work to the shop.
                                Lumber, lumber, lumber.
                                Up and down ladders.
                                And the windshield install is giving me fits.
                                Still not in.
                                You don't even want to hear about that.
                                I did find a NOS gear.
                                20171118_105122[1].jpg

                                So, I'm a little "behind" on the headlights.
                                But I did get the tail light working.
                                This isn't the brake lights.
                                This is just tail lights.
                                Wow.
                                (They are red. Just looks yellow tinged the picture)
                                I will get those replacement switches and try them.
                                My son is supposed to be working on that.

                                814SECC8sBL._SY355_.jpg

                                20171118_175825[1].jpg
                                 
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                                • olddog67

                                  olddog67 Well-Known Member

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                                  What about modifying or altering another type of headlight motor? 80's Firebirds had pop up lights, honda preludes, toyota corollas and many more.
                                   
                                • onlyone

                                  onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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                                  ACHTUNG

                                  I have tested it and, it works like a champ.
                                  The headlight motors and bulbs are very happy now.
                                  But, I had to add a relay in the indication circuit to prevent battery drain while ignition "off".
                                  This is the revised, simplified print I worked on yesterday.

                                  NEXT I will be uploading some pictures of the "complete" modification and a "how too" in pictures once I get another Bosch relay from Amazon. (The "AUX" relay)
                                  I will also post a factory "unified" print of the headlight power relays and this circuit when I finish.

                                  ALSO, I found a error in the original factory prints in the "flasher" circuit while working the wiring bundle.
                                  I will post it separately and cross link to this thread later.
                                  I do not know how widespread the error is in the cars "as built".
                                  But you would never find the problem if you had to fix the flashers and did not have the car apart.
                                  http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...sher-wiring-discrepancy-in-the-prints.145537/

                                  Does anyone have some "extra" limit switch brackets I can buy for a prototype work up?
                                  I don't need
                                  switches. Just the brackets.

                                  At the moment I'm using the original limit switches but would like to provide a readily available substitute for them.

                                  How do I post a MP4 video from my cell of the operation?
                                  I can change the file type with Hebow, but have no software to compress it and can I upload it?


                                  Headlight Mod. simplified.jpg




                                   
                                  Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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                                  • someoneanywhere

                                    someoneanywhere Well-Known Member

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                                    Yea!!! Great work and much appreciated.
                                    THANK YOU!
                                     
                                  • onlyone

                                    onlyone Bird of Pray FBBO Gold Member

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                                    I just tried to save these prints from the site to see how they looked for other people.
                                    I see that doesn't work for actually reading them if they want them.
                                    Is the site reducing the size or something when I upload them?
                                    It appears to be reducing the print from 1.08 Meg to 66KB and it can't be read when saved from the page.
                                    Someone will need to let me know how to make a larger size available if they do want them.
                                    These are for a complete rework and eliminate the connectors, which I decided would be a better way to do it.
                                    They include a Bussman 30 amp waterproof externally mounted CB and dedicated circuit for the headlights off the alternator.






                                    67 charger engine final as built Jan.2018.jpg

                                    3.5.jpg
                                    18.jpg


                                    19.jpg
                                     
                                    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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