Take You Pick...

[DeltaV]

Damn!!! I didn't realise I would be opening up such a can of worms just by posting this up for a read. Other than a few here that accepted it for what it is, others are hell bent on the negativity, rather than cars from back in the day came in all kinds of boxes and designs, and regardless of marquee, had some stellar muscle to them. Oh well...Sorry for the intrusion y'all!!! cr8crshr/Bill

Be glad you didn't post anything about fender tags.

 

[cr8crshr]

Be glad you didn't post anything about fender tags.

Amen to that one!!!

 

[Cranky]

425 HP / 400 ft-lbs , top speed of 140mph isn’t enough muscle for you?

Sounds great but rather have one of those hot rod Chryslers lol and actually saw a few of those prowling around. Never saw one of those Olds...

 

[Cranky]

Damn!!! I didn't realise I would be opening up such a can of worms just by posting this up for a read. Other than a few here that accepted it for what it is, others are hell bent on the negativity, rather than cars from back in the day came in all kinds of boxes and designs, and regardless of marquee, had some stellar muscle to them. Oh well...Sorry for the intrusion y'all!!! cr8crshr/Bill

You know how we are LOL

 

[Budnicks]

You know how we are LOL

it's just clearing the air & just stating facts,
or it's just opinions
& some good ones too


muscle car
1962-1972, that's even stretching it more like 1964-1971
(it was a coined phrase/definition in 1964, by a car mag. writer
many are/were mid level or lower budget, stripped down, lighter versions
for the 1st time buyers 'youth market')

Some even called them Super Cars,
Like Baldwin Motion, Mr Norm, Dickeys, Yenko

A muscle car 2 dr 'midsize car' coupe or HT (not a full size or luxury land yachts)
with a;
Big Block V8, 4bbl or 2x4bbl or 6bbl/six-pack/tri-power/3 dueces
performance engine, most were with larger diam. dual exhaust too
many were 4 speed (not all, MoPar TF trans were faster)
most were stripped down a bit (not all like the GTX or GSX or some Chevelle or 442)
many had sure-grip, track locker, Eaton, limited slip or a Possi (GM)
& performance rear gears like a 3.54:1 (3.23, 3.48, 3.55) 3.73:1 3.90:1 (3.91:1)
to a (4.11:1) track pack 4.10:1 (some even 4.30:1 gear ratio)
many had 70 series tires from the factory, many were just 14" rims too
some even had special "rally" wheels/road wheels/SS wheels
& raised white letter red or blue line tires too

Usually midsize is in the 114"-118" wheelbase,
some a lil' more some a lil' less an 1" either way
so not compacts (like a Nova/Cevy II or Dart/Demon, Mudstains) were Pony Cars
or sportscars (like a Vett Camaro Firebird Cobra etc.)

Not a full size, not any full size none of the big 4 (including AMC) luxury cars,
that leaves out
GM the Tornado, the GS 401/425 Riviera it was a whole lot more of a sporty RWD car
or C-bodies, or any of the other Ford Galaxies, Starliner, LTD, XL 500, Marauder
& many many others too or any others makes full size

 

[Cranky]

Be glad you didn't post anything about fender tags.

 

[Rick@Laysons]

In my "younger" days, I was always told a "muscle car" was a car that had at least one horsepower for every ten pounds of weight.

So a 3000 lb car with a 300hp engine would be considered a "muscle car".

 

[Cranky]

In my "younger" days, I was always told a "muscle car" was a car that had at least one horsepower for every ten pounds of weight.

So a 3000 lb car with a 300hp engine would be considered a "muscle car"

So a 375hp 440 in a fully loaded 70 Charger didn't fit the bill.....?

 

[RR Fan Dan]

it's just clearing the air & just stating facts,
or it's just opinions
& some good ones too


muscle car
1962-1972, that's even stretching it more like 1964-1971
(it was a coined phrase/definition in 1964, by a car mag. writer
many are/were mid level or lower budget, stripped down, lighter versions
for the 1st time buyers 'youth market')

Some even called them Super Cars,
Like Baldwin Motion, Mr Norm, Dickeys, Yenko

A muscle car 2 dr 'midsize car' coupe or HT (not a full size or luxury land yachts)
with a;
Big Block V8, 4bbl or 2x4bbl or 6bbl/six-pack/tri-power/3 dueces
performance engine, most were with larger diam. dual exhaust too
many were 4 speed (not all, MoPar TF trans were faster)
most were stripped down a bit (not all like the GTX or GSX or some Chevelle or 442)
many had sure-grip, track locker, Eaton, limited slip or a Possi (GM)
& performance rear gears like a 3.54:1 (3.23, 3.48, 3.55) 3.73:1 3.90:1 (3.91:1)
to a (4.11:1) track pack 4.10:1 (some even 4.30:1 gear ratio)
many had 70 series tires from the factory, many were just 14" rims too
some even had special "rally" wheels/road wheels/SS wheels
& raised white letter red or blue line tires too

Usually midsize is in the 114"-118" wheelbase,
some a lil' more some a lil' less an 1" either way
so not compacts (like a Nova/Cevy II or Dart/Demon, Mudstains) were Pony Cars
or sportscars (like a Vett Camaro Firebird Cobra etc.)

Not a full size, not any full size none of the big 4 (including AMC) luxury cars,
that leaves out
GM the Tornado, the GS 401/425 Riviera it was a whole lot more of a sporty car
or C-bodies, or any of the other Ford Galaxies, Starliner, LTD, XL 500, Marauder
& many many others too or any others makes full size

That’s one persons opinion 60 years ago. Time does change things and one person writing a magazine article is not the go all, do all, be all, to end all expert. A high horsepower V8 ( or V6 think Buick GN) stuffed into anything to burn the tires off and smoke other cars stop light to stop light is muscle in my opinion. But then again, I’m just one man, and that’s my opinion.

 

[Rick@Laysons]

So a 375hp 440 in a fully loaded 70 Charger didn't fit the bill.....?

Well......FWIW

Done a search and ran across this post from "Streetwize" on Moparchat.com.....I think a few of you will recognize the name....
_______________________________________________________________________

I've owned two 70 Chargers and weighed them both on certified scales. They each had between 1/4-1/2 tank of gas.

70 SE 383 4 speed w/air weighed 3840 with magnum 500 wheels

70 R/T 440 4 speed/Dana 60 weighs (no options except power steering and a radio, still have it) weighs 3710 with lightweight Weld Wheels. I was pleasantly suprised by this!

An Automatic should be maybe 40-50 lbs lighter (as anyone who's ever changed an 833 can attest!)

Wize 1
____________________________________________________________________

So it would appear that a '70 Charger would be a muscle car........unless you're counting decimal points too.

 

[33 IMP]

Sounds great but rather have one of those hot rod Chryslers lol and actually saw a few of those prowling around. Never saw one of those Olds...

425 was the Toro's displacement, not horsepower.
If I remember right, power was an optimistic 350, traction was poor, and weight was substantial!
The Toro was a "personal luxury" car, competing with with Riviera and Tbird.

 

[SteveSS]

The Pontiac Can Am looks cool but our three 1973 Grand Ams are better. Basically the same car but a little slipperier styling wise, and a more lux interior. Two of our have the 455 with 455 ft/lbs of tq stock. The hp is around 250-275 but with a basic heads and a cam from Butler Performance you're at 475 hp 575 tq. The third one has a built 400 I don't know much about. The Can Ams are pretty pricey nowadays. The GAs are on the back burner for now but they're coming up.

Yes that list left out a lot but it's still cool. I met the artist on the black one. He lives in New Zealand. The silver one is in CA and has an LS6, six speed.

 

[RR Fan Dan]

425 was the Toro's displacement, not horsepower.
If I remember right, power was an optimistic 350, traction was poor, and weight was substantial!
The Toro was a "personal luxury" car, competing with with Riviera and Tbird.

You’re correct for 66-67. 68-70 had the 455 rated at 400 hp / 500 ft-lbs with the W34 option

 

[69 Sleeper Bee]

425 HP / 400 ft-lbs , top speed of 140mph isn’t enough muscle for you?

Lots of muscle but in a front wheel drive ?
I'm sure it would light up that front wheel but in the 1/4 mile

 

[SteveSS]

My friend's mom always drove a new Caddy El Dorado convertible. When she dropped us off at junior high she'd spin those front tires a bit. Easy with 500 c.i. I had a pretty big crush on her. Seriously wealthy too. She was kind of famous so I won't say too much. I'm guessing this picture was early '60's.