Tappet Lifter Noise after Rocker Remove/Replace

[HS 69 Charger]

I just finished working on my car that solved two problems and created a new problem. I have a 69 Dodge Charger with 383 4barrel Vin H. My cold starts were getting increasingly rough and then I started also getting and exhaust sound from the Passenger side Head/Manifold area. I finally decided I would remove the valve cover, Rocker arm, and Manifold and then retorque the Head bolts. Indeed I found some turning at the 50lb torque and more at the 70lb torque. I made several final passes at 70lb and then reassembled. Holding my breath I started her up and Yippee, no exhaust sound and very smooth cold start. The best I ever remember.
My joy was short lived as I now have Lifter/Tappet Noise very consistently from that side. I have not yet repulled the valve cover to inspect but short of seeing the lifter rod out of place or bent, I am unsure what the next step would be. From the service manual there was some discussion of pulling the lifters and "priming" them in oil and compressing. Also, it suggested running with the valve cover off to try to isolate which lifter is causing the noise.
Any Advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

I did have a second issue but know its source. When I removed the Manifold both sleeved Nuts came out with the studs. The furthest back leaked out antifreeze when the stud came out. According to the manual this appears normal (as in not broken). Besides catching as much of it in a basin as I could, I realized some dripped down into the Exhaust Pipe and puddled in the pipe. Sure enough I bellowed fluid and smoke on start up. I don't know what to expect on how long it will take to burn off. I expect if it doesn't go away, then the Head gasket is blown but since I know the fluid got in the pipe I am hoping it will just take a good "hot lap" to burn it all off. Which I haven't taken it out yet beyond the driveway due to the lifter noise.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Martin

 

[icetech]

First thing i would do is pull the valve covers and make sure there isn't excess lash at any of the rockers.. The stamped steel rockers that mopar uses can literally get hammered through when there is lash in the valve train since the pushrod slams into the rocker instead of just pushing on it. If you had the exhaust manifold off i would put money on it being an exhaust leak and not valve train noise, a small exhaust leak sounds almost the same.

 

[HS 69 Charger]

I will check the exhaust Manifold as well. I should be able to hear it if I have the covers off. I will attempt to run a short time with the valve cover off. Not sure how much oil is thrown around but no the service manual actually suggests it on one check.
Is there anything I should be doing on the lifters to prime them?
I'll have it open tonight and see what I find.

 

[icetech]

I will check the exhaust Manifold as well. I should be able to hear it if I have the covers off. I will attempt to run a short time with the valve cover off. Not sure how much oil is thrown around but no the service manual actually suggests it on one check.
Is there anything I should be doing on the lifters to prime them?
I'll have it open tonight and see what I find.

No.. unless they were brand new out of the box you don't really need to prime them, they should pump up in seconds.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I would pull the rocker shafts and make sure you have the holes pointing down. Not up. Otherwise you are getting oil starvation.

 

[PlymCrazy]

As @icetech said, exhaust leak can mimic valve train noise and is often mistaken as such. When engine is cold, start it and run your finger around the gasket feeling for the leak. You only have a few seconds to do this as it quickly gets too hot to touch.

@BeepBeepRR makes perfect sense here too. To check for proper orientation of the oil holes, without removing the rocker assembly, you can start the engine with that valve cover off. Within a few seconds you should clearly see oil on the top of the shaft and working its way to top of each rocker. I put a towel in there to catch any oil that flicks off the rockers while running.

 

[HS 69 Charger]

@icetech
Can you give me a bit more info on the Lash to look for. With the Hydraulic lifters and no lash adjustment, what would be the lash that is out of tolerance and what then would be the cause. I thought with the Hydraulic Lifters it was always pressing the rod against the Rocker. Or does that mean the Lifter has failed in some fashion.
I haven't pulled the cover yet but had restarted and taken around the neighborhood. The Antifreeze fog is successfully burned off but the sound is still there. No real change. And I did another tightening pass on the Manifold nuts.

 

[HS 69 Charger]

@BeepBeepRR and PlymCrazy. Thanks for that additional info. I will definitely check both before I head out again while its cold.

 

[khryslerkid]

And to cover the coolant coming from removing the manifold stud/bolt, they go into the water jackets. There should be sealant used on the threads when reinstalling them. Liquid Teflon or Permatex #2. Do not use silicone.

 

[Geoff 2]

[1] Rocker shaft oil holes up [ instead of down ] would be pretty obvious with factory rockers....
[2] To test for noisy lifters, valve cover off: lay rag everywhere because of oil spurting up.
[3] Use a leather glove, engine idling, hand/finger on each rocker. If it is loose, the sound will change & you have found the culprit/.
[4] Noisy lifters. I have found with some hyd lifters the car has be driven, to get the oil thoroughly warmed up. Then give it a big rev in gear. Do not know why, but this gets the offending lifter pumped up.

 

[HS 69 Charger]

Mystery Identified. I have a bent pushrod on Cylinder 6 intake valve. I would expect when i installed i did not get the rod seated in the Lifter and maybe had it on the rim. Then on the first rotation when the cam lifted there wasn't enough room so it bent the rod. Please share any other possible causes so I know what to try NOT to do next time.
I did identify a pushrod that I can get by Saturday. I verified dimensions as 8.575 x 5/16". Please confirm I can just replace the rod. I really only need it short term due to some other work I plan to do. So if long term its suggested to replace Lifter and Rod I can do that too. Or is there more?
I did confirm I had the Rocker in correctly for oil lubrication and that all rockers had a nice pool of oil on them and all parts were well coated with oil.

Thanks for any suggestions and the help so far,

Martin

 

[Geoff 2]

The offending p'rod probably got jammed when you re-assembled the rocker gear. I would just replace it.

Here is a trick to position the prods for assy of the shaft/rockers. Lay a piece of welding wire or straightened out coat hanger against the rocker pedestals. Lay prods against the wire; check with a torch that all the prods are seated in the prod cups in the lifters. Make sure the prod tip enters the seat on the rocker.

 

[hunt2elk]

The offending p'rod probably got jammed when you re-assembled the rocker gear. I would just replace it.

Here is a trick to position the prods for assy of the shaft/rockers. Lay a piece of welding wire or straightened out coat hanger against the rocker pedestals. Lay prods against the wire; check with a torch that all the prods are seated in the prod cups in the lifters. Make sure the prod tip enters the seat on the rocker.

The dipstick works good for holding the rockers in line as well.

 

[icetech]

Glad you found it and by lash, i meant play in the rocker like from a bent pushrod

 

[HS 69 Charger]

Success! We will just say I was a LOT more careful setting up the rods and torqueing down the Rocker Bolts. The Dip Stick trick worked perfect and was then very easy to slide out after. In addition, I used a Reading LED light on a flexible shaft. With my 5v battery pack I could put that light right down the slot between each set of rods. Then I could either see it straight up or use my phone camera where the Hood and the AC/Heater tubes got in the way. I checked them during setup, then halfway through installing the Rocker Arm, and then again after it was set. Then with the coil wire disconnected, I used my remote Start cable and cranked over the engine watching and checking the rods seated in the Lifter/Rocker arm. None were loose (no big lash @icetech). Finally put the valve cover on and started her up. Still much smoother than before I started the project with no exhaust sound PLUS....NO ticking. Took her for a spin and it was so sweet to listen to the rear exhaust rumble and not a loud vibrating engine. Will be nice to "cruise" into the car show tomorrow with no embarrassing sounds and trails of smoke. Will be an awesome day in Kansas City with Sun and 70s

Thanks for all the advice, wisdom, and encouragement!
Martin

 

[icetech]

Awesome, nice when things work out and lesson learned, but it never happens again!

 

[4speed68rt]

That same thing happened to me. I dont know how long I was running it with a bent pushrod. It was bent about like that, same one to. I assume that I did it when I assembled the engine in 1991. I was putting a new intake manifold on it in 2016 when I found the bent pushrod. SH*T happens, I guess. Glad you figured it out. I know that it runs alot better and smoother now.