Torque boxes and frame connectors

General Mopar Tech Discussions

  1. rrTor-Red

    rrTor-Red FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Will be installing torque boxes and frame connectors on my RR. The K-member and rear axle will be removed forthe restoration process. Should thes be welded on with the cars weight is on all fours or can I do it with the K member and rear end removed? I thought someone said that the body might "tweak" if the weight is off. Want to do this right the first time. So, I was going to weld these in when the car goes to the body shop.
     
  2. Propwash

    Propwash Well-Known Member

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    The sub frame connectors I got from Global West specify in their directions the the car should have weight on wheels..The torque boxes I got from A.R.T. can be installed off the ground, according to the their technician.
     
  3. rrTor-Red

    rrTor-Red FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Propwash- Do you have a web site for these two companies? The torque boxes and frame connectors is for my 71 RR. Want to check to see if theyhave the stuff I need. I wasnt sure if they needed to be welded on with wheels on ground or not.
     
  4. Donny

    Donny Well-Known Member

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    The chance of 'tweaking' is very very very small; these body's are very tough, and well put together, and have many many many spot welds. I spin B Bodies on my rotisserie for Media Blasting and they are very stout units. I would have no worries about anything; just weld 'em in, but, it's going to be a very stiff chassis!
     
  5. Propwash

    Propwash Well-Known Member

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  6. rrTor-Red

    rrTor-Red FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Thanks Propwash for the sites and Donny! I just want to be sure that if I install the boxes and connectors that its done right. Dont want to find out that they weren't. Just want to get "all my ducks in a row" first.

    As soon as I get back home, I'm hoping to get my car ready for the body shop. Its about 90% stripped down but need to finish it. I'll be home next month for roughly 5 weeks. I'll try to get some pix of my girl up on here for all to enjoy.

    Thanks
     
  7. Propwash

    Propwash Well-Known Member

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    No problem rrTor-Red.. Looking forward to the pic's and watching your project roll along.
     
  8. Bad Sport

    Bad Sport Well-Known Member

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    I like these. Check them out for your connecters and torque boxes.

    http://www.uscartool.com/Bframeconn/index.html

    When these frame connecters are in and welded up it looks as if they were there from the factory.
     
  9. Chris

    Chris Well-Known Member

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    just had mine welded in. ART is where I got both the tb and fc. They seem to make a big difference in my 68 B body. Good luck
     

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  10. rrTor-Red

    rrTor-Red FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Thanks for the info and the advice gents. Im sure I'll have a ton of questions as to how to do things but I'm willing to learn it. Not affraid of trying to tackle this project. Nice to know the members here are willing to lend comment or two when needed. as soon as I get back to the states, the fun begins:headbang:
     
  11. rrTor-Red

    rrTor-Red FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Chris-Did you weld them in with the weight on the wheels or on a lift? It appears on the lift. I was told that they should be welded with weight on the wheels but census says doesnt matter. Just wondering.
     
  12. shag766

    shag766 Well-Known Member

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    my connectors from hotchkis says wheels grounded.
     
  13. Cranky

    Cranky Banned Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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    A lot of people seem to think that the unitized body construction on Mopars are weak and are flexible which is wrong. Even Dave Morgan who wrote DOOR SLAMMERS, The Chassis Book thinks they are as flexible as any car can be. It doesn't say that in his book but if you ask him at one of his seminars or elsewhere, he'll tell ya. He also thinks people with money are morons but that's all I'll say about that.
    The factory built the body then hung everything on it AFTER it was welded up. The best way to check to make sure the body is square is to use a jig...or fixture for you PC folks :D You can also use a smooth concrete floor IF you make sure it's flat before taking measurements but most floors will need some attention before it's good enough to use as a level place to work off of. If I'm going to do frame ties on a complete car, I'll put jack stands under the rear axle and then support the front end at the frame as near as I can to the motor mount area...and take measurements before jacking it up and again once it's in the air. If I see a difference, I look for why. You might see a difference with a convertible but they generally will twist and not have a bunch of sag if any. Another way to check if you have any sag is to check door gaps in several places before lifting and after setting it on stands.
    The first time I encountered body sag or twist was when my dad had a flat tire on his 56 Plymouth Belvedere Sports Coupe. Once it was jacked up, the doors wouldn't open. I was only 7 at the time but remember it well....and of course that car was a full frame car. THOSE are the cars that have problems with sag and twist. Also cars with a full front subframe setups like Camaros etc and is where this type of talk comes from imo. Now if your car is rusty, treat it like a GM product....well, that's not fair lol. Having a chassis manual is nice because it has all the dimensions you need to make your checks to make sure your chassis is where it should be. Btw, the tolerance for our cars isn't exactly perfect either so don't knock yourself out trying to make it that way. I've found cars that had the body a good 1/2" different side to side....
     
  14. Chris

    Chris Well-Known Member

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    the welding was done with the wheels grounded. I just snapped a shot when on the lift...
     
  15. dangina

    dangina Well-Known Member

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    I'll be doing the same to my 71 rr this summer - post pics of the process!:hello2:
     
  16. GTXKen

    GTXKen Well-Known Member

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    I've done more than one set on a rotisserie and have never had an issue. If you have a really rusty car or convertible that’s a different story. I’ve checked the car before and after, on the ground and in the air. For the record when I did this it was a bare chassis, no interior, glass, engine or suspension.
     
  17. rrTor-Red

    rrTor-Red FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Thanks for all that replied!

    I guess I'll decide what route to take on my car. Either put them on when the car is on the rotisserie or with wheels grounded. If grounded, might take it to a friend of mines muffler shop. There, we'll pull it on the ramps and lift the car up to weld them in (drive up kind of lift, not lifting it up on the four corners).
    If on a rotisserie, the K, rear, glass and windows will be out of it. I'll try to make it as squared as possible before the welding begins.

    I'm fortunate that my car has NO rust on her. I mean, NO rust. How often can we say that about a 40 year old car? The car is about 85%-90% torn apart right now. I'm going to get the rest of her ready when I get home from Afghanistan. I'll be getting home on the 14th!..YEAH! I just pray to the Mopar gods to give me the advice/suggestions/opinions as needed to accomplish getting my old girl done.

    I;ll post pictures of the install of the boxes and connectors. Might even post a thread on the resto work on the projects section.

    Thanks guys!
     
  18. 696pack

    696pack Well-Known Member

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    Not meaning to highjack this thread but i believe the OPers question has been answered so I will respond to the above bolded statement.

    When I was selling Dodges and AMC in the late 60s and early 70s people would ask about the unitized body because someone at the competition had told them they were weak. Having been a AMC dealership long before a Dodge dealer AMCs (Ramblers) have a unitized body, we had learned to overcome that objection long ago. We kept a shoe box in the dealership to use as a visual aid. We would take the lid off and show how flexible and easy it was to twist as in a ladder type frame that the body was bolted to on cars without unibodies. Then we would put the lid back on the show box and ask the customer to try to twist it. Of course it was much harder to do. Then the customer would understand the difference. We went through A LOT of shoe box lids.:grin:
     
  19. Revhendo

    Revhendo Well-Known Member

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    So why bother with the connectors and boxes? Does it really need them?
     
  20. 696pack

    696pack Well-Known Member

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    ALL cars that are going to be run on the strip with slicks and a 4 speed need additional strengthing in these areas if you want to avoid a potential wrinkle in the C pillar or split metal in the door jam area. Most of us have seen this body damage I am speaking of on old race cars. Chrysler recognized the need for body strengthening in convertibles (no solid top to help support the unibody concept) and in hipo cars that they knew would be adding torque to the body. This is why it was their intent for those cars to have torque boxes although some of the intended cars were missed with them.

    If you are street racing without slicks and don't do a 5000 rpm ot higher launch or run an auto trans you likely won't do the damage I indicated above but it is still possible.

    Cars with ladder frames actually need frame strengthing as well but due to their suspension shortcomings they generally overcome both of those problems with a ladder bar type of traction device.

    It all comes down to how the power of the engine gets to the pavement and how much of the power is absorbed through the body/suspension of the car. The less that is absorbed there the more goes to the pavement. Intelligent racers have understood this for years and know that the more less power they loose this way the more they get to the ground. This is why a good suspension has always been a big concern for them. This is also the racers back in the day wanted 2 door sedans rather than 2 door hardtops for race cars. The have the sedan B pillar that adds strength to the body in that area. Like any chain if there is a weak link that is where it breaks and that is why the hard top cars are more suseptible to the C pillar and door jam damage that in mentioned above.
     
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