Upper control arm question.

[Funship32]

Howdy guys. I'm sure this is a well plied question but I thought I'd ask seeing as I can't find a definitive answer.

Got a '69 money pi...er...Road Runner. Manual everything. Looking to do a front disc brake swap over the winter with an A-body brake setup I have. Obviously since I'm in there I'd like to do some improvement on the front end as I've been spoiled by newer cars.

Pondering installing the following:

1.) Poly LCA bushings as well as adding a LCA stiffing kit.
2.) Installing P-S-T/QA1 upper control arms for the extra castor which the OE jobs to not provide.

HOWEVER...I know there are offset bushings made for the OE UCA's. As such, I was just wondering what the general consensus is regarding which path YOU would take. Are the UCA worth it? Overkill? Mind you this is a street driven rig only. No auto cross. But I do like a decent handling car so just know that I will upgrade things to bigger/better items (poly bushings, larger tie rods, bigger anti-sway bar, add a rear anti-sway) just 'cause that is how I tend to roll. Get it...anti sway...way I roll...get it? Ha? Bueller? Okay bad pun but seriously, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
FS32

 

[RestifiedBee]

I have a '69 Bee. I'm going with the PST u.c.a., PST lowered spindles, big rotors, reinforced l.c.a., all poly bushing and a new firm feel steering box. Not sure which sway bar will fit yet. I don't plan on doing any autocross just want it to drive as good/or better than my prizm

 

[Cranky]

Not all B body cars were plaqued with the caster problem so it might be a good idea to check what you have before spending a ton of money. I was able to get plenty on my 66 Belvedere even with enough negative camber to be able to notice by eye. I also stiffened my own LCA's.

 

[WileE]

P S T tubular U C A 's .....I love 'em.

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I have a '69 Bee. I'm going with the PST u.c.a., PST lowered spindles, big rotors, reinforced l.c.a., all poly bushing and a new firm feel steering box. Not sure which sway bar will fit yet. I don't plan on doing any autocross just want it to drive as good/or better than my prizm

I like your plan.

 

[dirtypamopar]

I have a 69 Roadrunner that I just redid the suspension on. The setup below has totally changed the feel of the car for the better....I can take turns much better, grip the road better, less body roll, and more control at high speeds.

- SPC adjustable upper control arms
- Borgensen tight ration steering box
- Hotchkis anti-sway bar in the front

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Both Hotchkis and Hellwig make nice sway bars for B bodies

http://www.hotchkis.net/product/196...port-suspension/?mk=40&yr=1969&md=289&sm=1099

http://www.hellwigproducts.com/look...ia.;+Tubular;+Fast/Easy+Bolt+On+Installation;

 

[dvw]

My 64 Belvedere drag car works well with offset bushings. Has 2.5 degrees caster and regularly exceeds 148 mph.
Doug

 

[HYRDGOON]

I just ordered my Magnum Force double adjustable UCA's and dropped spindles. Same idea.. not autocross just really want my car to stick... So far the absolute biggest handling upgrade has been from P-S-T Bilsteins on all 4 corners

 

[Kern Dog]

There is a common belief that all production cars have a range of tolerances when they are built. This means that the right frame rail has to be within a few thousands of the target measurement from the left, the UCA mounts have to be within a few thousands of the front of the frame rail...
In other words, no two cars are exactly alike. There are cars with "tolerance stack up" that can either be to your benefit or detriment. I assume that in most cases, about 80 % of the cars sold fit in the middle of tolerances and are able to be aligned in the middle of the published specifications.
There are now the 20% remaining. Those cars may need special attention to achieve a factory alignment. The ones that are on the UNdesireable end may need aftermarket UCAs, offset bushings, frame realignment to get a decent alignment.
I must be one of the charmed types. My 70 Charger has stock upper and lower control arms. The UCA bushings are the Moog K7103 offset types and I was able to get 4.6/4.7 degrees of caster and .6 to .7 degrees of NEG camber. The car has never been wrecked, jumped or even hit a curb hard.
I've learned that in many cases, the effort to gain caster often results in positive camber. The problem with that is that a slight amount of NEG camber is better for cornering because as the body leans/rolls in a turn, the NEG camber has a better chance of helping the tire to stay square to the road surface. On hard turns, the outside front tire takes a much greater load than the inner tire.

In the OPs case, the aftermarket UCAs may help if he is unable to get at least 2 degrees of POS caster with offset bushings. The thing is, it costs money to try the Moog bushings and have it aligned. I like to try CHEAP first. Some alignment shops will not charge you if they are unable to get the car to align.

 

[ilm65]

I just ordered my Magnum Force double adjustable UCA's and dropped spindles. Same idea.. not autocross just really want my car to stick... So far the absolute biggest handling upgrade has been from P-S-T Bilsteins on all 4 corners

I too, have the Magnum Force double adjustable upper control arms--absolutely love the added caster. JUST A SUGGESTION: Ride in someone's car equipped with polyurethane bushings before you convert yours. I converted to poly bushings and got real tired of the constant thumping with every pavement seam--being that my car is 99% street driven, I took the entire front apart (for the second time) over last winter and installed original OEM rubber bushings--WHAT A PLEASANT CHANGE!

 

[Kern Dog]

I forgot to comment on the urethane bushings.
YES, the lower control arms are fine with a rubber bushing. The urethane ones do transmit more harshness and vibration without much additional improvement in handling. In the late 80s and early 90s when more companies came about reproducing parts, many offered front end rebuild kits with your choice of rubber bushings or urethane. Many enthusiasts saw this as an opportunity to improve the handling of their car. Thing is, they may have been used to driving the car with sloppy, worn out stuff. They may have never driven a car with fresh components to know how well the car feels with even a 100% stock rebuild. I have a buddy that put delrin bushings in the front spring eyes of the leaf springs and urethane bushings throughout the front end of his otherwise stock 71 Road Runner. The car wallowed down the road but shook and vibrated each time he hit a bump. He converted back to rubber bushings, installed bigger torsion bars, different leaf springs and the car now handles better with a better ride.