Voltage Regulator issue?

[Omni Source]

Good Evening All

My '68 Bee has a dry charged battery and a Mopar electronic voltage regulator.
The battery has been disconnected (both cables) for the past 4-5 months as the car sits in the man-cave awaiting spring.

I was bored last weekend and added headlight relays. All went well with the headlights (18 year old sylvania pieces). They were visibly brighter when I tested them ( engine off).:icon_sunny::icon_sunny:

Today I fired up the Bee, tried the headlights and promptly blew them out.:angryfire: Subsequent testing showed that at an idle voltage at the headlight sockets were between 15.8 and 16.1. Voltage ant the battery stud on the alternator was between 16.8 and 17.1. The Amp gauge shows that at part throttle it is pegged (charging).

Now, I do realize that a battery that is not fully charged will charge on the high side. My question is: How high is too high? Are the readings normal? Should I use a different voltage regulator? Should I forget the relay idea? I have never had any problem with electrical components in the past. I have used dry charged battery for several years. The alternator is a stock Mopar piece (single field).

My '68 service manual does not list any 'ranges'. Before I replace the headlights I would figure this out.

Thanks to all who respond.ccasion14:

 

[Coronet 14]

Do you have an automotive electrical repair shop near you? If you do, take ALT off and have it tested. At least you will know if it's good or not.

 

[Glenwood]

here's a clip from a 1970 Chrysler manual. 16Vdc is too high.

E L E C T R O N I C V O L T A G E R E G U L A T O R
VOLTAGE REGULATOR T E S T (When Tester
C-4133 is Not Available)
(1) Clean the battery terminals and check the
specific gravity. I t should be above 1.200 to allow
a prompt regulated voltage check.
I f the specific gravity is below 1.200, charge or use
another battery and do not leave the uncharged battery i n the circuit.
(2) Connect the positive lead fro m a voltmeter to
the ignition Number one (1) terminal of the ballast
resistor. (The Ignitio n Number one (1) terminal of the
ballast resistor is the end which has one or two blue
wires connected to it. ) The other end, Ignitio n Number two (2), w i l l have a brown and blue wire or jus t
a brown wire connected to i t (Fig. 5).
(3) Connect the negative lead fro m the voltmeter
to a good vehicle body ground.
(4) Start and operate engine at 1250 r p m w i t h all
lights and accessories turne d off. Check voltmeter, the
regulator is working properly i f the voltage readings
are i n accordance w i th the following chart.
AMBIENT TEMPERATURE NEAR VOLTAGE REGULATOR
VOLTAGE RANGE
—20°F 14.3 15.3
80°F 13.8 14.4
140°F 13.3 14.0
Above 140°F Less than 13.8
I t is normal fo r the car ammeter to show an immediate
charge and then gradually r e t u rn to normal position.
The duratio n the ammeter hand remains to the r i g h t
w i l l be dependent on the length of cranking time.
(5) I f the voltage is below limits , proceed as follows:
(a) Check for a good voltage regulator ground.
Check for voltage drop between cover of voltage regulator and body on low voltage scale of voltmeter.
(b) T u r n off ignition switch and disconnect voltage
regulator connector.
(c) T u r n on the ignition switch, but do not start
car, check fo r battery voltage at the w i r i n g harness
terminal connected to the blue and green leads. Disconnect wirin g harness from voltage regulator when
checkin g the leads.
T u r n off ignitio n switch. I f voltage is not present
at either lead, the problem is i n the vehicle w i r i n g or
alternator field circuit. DO NOT DISTORT TERMI NAL S W I TH VOLTMETER PROBE.
(d) I f the previous steps, 5(a) through 5(c) tested
satisfactorily, change the voltage regulator and repeat step 4.
(6) I f the voltage is slightly above the limits shown
i n chart or is fluctuating, proceed as follows:
(a) Check ground between voltage regulator and
vehicle body.
(b) Check ground between vehicle body and engine.
(c) Check ignitio n switch circuit between battery
terminal of ignitio n switch and voltage regulator.
(7) I f the voltage is more than one-half (1/2) a volt
above limits shown i n chart, change the voltage regulator and repeat step 4.
(8) Remove the test voltmeter

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

.........My question is: How high is too high?.........

Anything over about 14.5 Vdc on a low battery is probably too high. If its over 15.0, it is definitely too high. The charge rate should start dropping fairly quickly as the battery recharges and you should see more like 13.5 Vdc under normal operation.


Alternator is working fine, it is the job of the regulator to "control" the output voltage. Your regulator is the problem, just as you suspected.

 

[bm02tj]

The alternator can still have internal bleed and over charge
pull it and have it tested

 

[451Mopar]

Check the ground on the regulator, and make sure the battery negative is also grounded to the body, not just the engine.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

The alternator can still have internal bleed and over charge
pull it and have it tested

Now that's a term I've never heard. Can you elaborate and explain to me what this condition means? I'm very curious. Thanks.

 

[Glenwood]

This happened to me one cold snowy night during an out of town job. Every light blew and cooked the battery in the dodge van. The longest 10 hours I've ever spent out in the cold...

 

[Omni Source]

Good Morning All

I very much appreciate the advice and thoughts on this problem.
If it does indeed turnout to be a regulator problem, any recommendations?

The regulator currently employed is a Mopar Performance piece (the blue regulator with one lead and a stud). This is the replacement for the point style box. I have tried the replacement point style boxes (bought one at the Nats two years ago, installed it and just about fried the wiring as it . That's why I went with the Mopar unit.

 

[Glenwood]

Are you talking about the electronic ignition control module? If so, it has nothing to do with voltage regulation. How many wires connected to it?

 

[Bruzilla]

I'll always remember when I lost a voltage regulator in a 73 Roadrunner I had. The car had one of those digital clocks with the red numbers that were all the rage in the 80s instealled in the dash, and when the regulator failed, and I hit the gas to pull out from a stop, those red LEDs looked like lava and then there was a loud pop as smoke filled the cup mount that held the clock and it fired out of there and into the back seat with wires and smoke trailing behind it. Scared the crap out of me, but it was a pretty impressive spectacle.

 

[Omni Source]

Good Morning

Well I couldn't stand it anymore. Went out to the man-cave and rifled through my part bins and found another Mopar Performance voltage regulator. I sanded off the paint on the backside to get a decent ground, and installed it.

My problems may be solved. I fired up the Bee, checked the voltage at the headlight sockets and found them to be around the 14.5 range. Voltage at the alternator was under 15.

Toady I'll acquire 4 headlights and give it a go.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

I'll always remember when I lost a voltage regulator in a 73 Roadrunner I had. The car had one of those digital clocks with the red numbers that were all the rage in the 80s instealled in the dash, and when the regulator failed, and I hit the gas to pull out from a stop, those red LEDs looked like lava and then there was a loud pop as smoke filled the cup mount that held the clock and it fired out of there and into the back seat with wires and smoke trailing behind it. Scared the crap out of me, but it was a pretty impressive spectacle.

Bru, that must have been AWESOME to see. Lava LED's :rolling: Plus a "Launch"!! :headbang:

- - - Updated - - -

Good Morning

Well I couldn't stand it anymore. Went out to the man-cave and rifled through my part bins and found another Mopar Performance voltage regulator. I sanded off the paint on the backside to get a decent ground, and installed it.

My problems may be solved. I fired up the Bee, checked the voltage at the headlight sockets and found them to be around the 14.5 range. Voltage at the alternator was under 15.

Toady I'll acquire 4 headlights and give it a go.

Omni, just in case you are unaware, the blue MP regulator for pre '70 cars is a "constant voltage" unit. It ALWAYS charges at that voltage, and never tapers down as the battery becomes fully charged. It will be fine as long as you don't drive the car for long trips. 30 minute trips every once in awhile won't hurt anything, but hours long driving can overheat and cook the battery with that regulator.

There are other options. Here is an original style regulator with modern electronics that you wont have to worry about. Plug n play.

http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=183-VR609

Or, you can convert your system to the '70 & up newer style voltage regulator. This is a good option if you already have the "dual field terminal" style alternator. If you still have the "single field terminal" alternator, you would have to convert the alternator also. Easy conversion though, if you already have the dual setup.

http://www.autozone.com/electrical-...alast-voltage-regulator-connector/342383_0_0/

http://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...ulator/duralast-voltage-regulator/130203_0_0/

Scroll down to #20 & #21 for the details on the conversion at this link.

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical.html

 

[Omni Source]

M&M

Didn't know that about the Mopar Performance regulators. I have no idea how I ended up with two of them.

Anyway, I drive these cars when weather permits. In fact this summer I'll be driving the '68 to the Mopar Nationals (about 4 hours from here).

I guess I'll be in the market for a new regulator.

I've tried the solid state model that looks like the original; it almost fried my new harness so I'm a little gun shy of trying them again. I'll look for a NOS point style as I have a single field alternator and I'm trying to keep the Bee as original looking as possible.

Thanks again

Omni

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

M&M

Didn't know that about the Mopar Performance regulators. I have no idea how I ended up with two of them.

Anyway, I drive these cars when weather permits. In fact this summer I'll be driving the '68 to the Mopar Nationals (about 4 hours from here).

I guess I'll be in the market for a new regulator.

I've tried the solid state model that looks like the original; it almost fried my new harness so I'm a little gun shy of trying them again. I'll look for a NOS point style as I have a single field alternator and I'm trying to keep the Bee as original looking as possible.

Thanks again

Omni

Yep, understand if you are doing the OEM thing. One of my cars ('69 Super Bee) I am the same way, the others are drivers and it doesn't really matter too much if I change things from OEM on them. Keep in mind though, the blue MP regulator isn't original looking either. :sSig_goodluck:

- - - Updated - - -

Hey Omni, check out this photo. Is this by chance your green '68 at the Nationals in 2014?

 

[Omni Source]

Why yes it is

It will be there this year, sporting new paint.

I realize that the MP regulator isn't stock appearing, that's why I paint them semi-gloss black.

Found a NOS style , keeping fingers crossed..:beerchug:

 

[383man]

Anything over about 14.5 Vdc on a low battery is probably too high. If its over 15.0, it is definitely too high. The charge rate should start dropping fairly quickly as the battery recharges and you should see more like 13.5 Vdc under normal operation.


Alternator is working fine, it is the job of the regulator to "control" the output voltage. Your regulator is the problem, just as you suspected.

This is right. Even with a very low battery the voltage regulator should still cut it back when the volts hit the setting of the reg which will be from 13.5 to 15 volts depending on outside temp with a stock type reg. It should not climb over 15 volts even on cold days down in the 30 to 40's Far. The warmer days it will cut the voltage back as at 70 degrees it should be around 14.2. Ron

 

[Omni Source]

Good Evening All

The charging issue has been corrected. Got a NOS (point style) regulator today. Installed it and the voltage now hovers around the 13.2 to 13.8 range.

Thanks to all who responded...

R Gabel

 

[threewood]

M&M

Didn't know that about the Mopar Performance regulators. I have no idea how I ended up with two of them.

Anyway, I drive these cars when weather permits. In fact this summer I'll be driving the '68 to the Mopar Nationals (about 4 hours from here).

I guess I'll be in the market for a new regulator.

I've tried the solid state model that looks like the original; it almost fried my new harness so I'm a little gun shy of trying them again. I'll look for a NOS point style as I have a single field alternator and I'm trying to keep the Bee as original looking as possible.

Thanks again

Omni

First off, love your car. Probably my favorite B Body ever! And that color is awesome.

You may have gotten a bad solid state vr or there was another issue. I too have a single field alt and had issues blowing vr's and having the amp gauge look like a tach when I reved it lol. I had one bad vr out of the box coupled with a alt that was going out. I pulled the alt and had it tested, bought a new one and purchased a solid state vr from ebay. Been going strong for 2 years. Glad you got it fixed

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Or, you can convert your system to the '70 & up newer style voltage regulator. This is a good option if you already have the "dual field terminal" style alternator. If you still have the "single field terminal" alternator, you would have to convert the alternator also. Easy conversion though, if you already have the dual setup.

http://www.autozone.com/electrical-...alast-voltage-regulator-connector/342383_0_0/

http://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...ulator/duralast-voltage-regulator/130203_0_0/

Scroll down to #20 & #21 for the details on the conversion at this link.

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical.html

thats the first thing i do on my cars, convert to a 70 and up dual field system.