What defines a clone?

[Gary Masse]

I was showing some one my GTX and it came with a U code ( 1971 G block) engine that someone change to a U code (1970 F block), It was a 4 speed car but we changed it to a Tremec 5 speed. He insisted it was a clone GTX even though the vin number starts with RS. Some people you have to walk away from. Where is the line of a factory car to a clone?

 

[moparedtn]

If that's an original RS23 car, it's no "clone" regardless what drivetrain is in it now
Does it also retain factory stampings on the radiator support and trunk rim?

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

The vin number. If the vin says it’s a GTX it’s a GTX. People get too caught up in numbers matching and perfection. These cars have 50 years or more on them, people drove, and still drive them hard. Stuff breaks, people replace, who cares. And also people upgrade for better and safer drivability.

My 68 GTX has a 69 Chrysler Newport non hp 440, do I care? Nope, it’s a 440 GTX and it’s a blast to drive. Enjoy your car, and don’t worry what others think.

 

[Richard Cranium]

While we're on the subject, I was always told that a female clone was called a clunt. Any truth to this?

 

[moparedtn]

While we're on the subject, I was always told that a female clone was called a clunt. Any truth to this?

Now looky here, you clock..

 

[440 PHIXX]

As the years have gone on... for me at least. They are all the same, just different trim.

 

[YY1]

The VIN tells what kind of car it is period*.

I suppose a case could be made that if you put 3 two barrel carbs and "SIX Pack" stickers on a 440-4 barrel car (or a 383 car for that matter), the case could be made that it's now a "Six pack clone".

 

[Gary Masse]

It still has the matching vin number on the rad support, cowl and trunk rim.

 

[Dave6T4]

It is not a clone. It's personallized.

 

[Budnicks]

Clone is a facsimile to an original, like a carbon copy
just not a numbers car or the actual model,
could just be the same body style
with different trim, hood, interior, dash, grill, tail-panel
'like those sheep that was cloned'
using like a Belvedere body or Satellite or Sport Sat.
to make it/them appear like they were an org. GTX, RR Etc.

but it's just looks like it

some will say
even if it's a real car, real RR GTX etc.
with different drivetrain than org. came in it
Hemi vs 440/383-400 or 6bbl/Six Pack vs 4bbl or Crossram vs 4bbl/2bbl etc.
many many scenarios could be "cloned" or tributes

no harm no foul,
IF IT'S disclosed, that it's not a real RR or GTX etc.
or as long as it's not some sort of fraud/scam
to try to attempt to say 'it's real'
or the dash/vin/rad support/trunk surround #s
fender tag "fraud" (like the 4dr 'cuda) & stamped #s on the car &/or block etc.
have been ground/removed-changed/welded in &/or altered,
trying to deceive/defraud the buyers/public, thinking it's real

some shady people out ther today

IMO a tribute could be considered the same too
splitting hairs

with all the restos & re-bodies going on,
or completely changing every piece of sheet-metal
except for maybe the org. frame structure underneath it
changing to a date coded or even NOS parts
is it still that org. car, some will argue that's not the same car either

it's only original once

Hell many of the quality/professionally done
resto-mods/pro-touring cars are worth even more
than a fully restored OE version, using NOS parts
many are nothing is numbers matching, except for the Vin/body/reg./title etc.

Many many more of these cars had day 2 mods,
the week they were off the lot
or the day after, hence the term 'Day 2',
wheels tires headers exhaust gear changes interior bench to buckets etc.
auto to manual etc.
than the all still org. cars "survivors"

these cars, many were or are still being drag raced, hot-rodded
a lot of them were blown up, crashed or wrecked rebodied
&/or lesser model parts installed, like a Belv. on a Sat. or RR/GTX etc.
some even still have the same #'s matching block trans rear housing etc.
some took out the OE stuff & put it in a corner
(forward thinkers ?, maybe had a crystal ball, or just got lucky or just hoarding )
they are many 50-60+ y/o cars, lots of stuff have/has been changed
they didn't used to be collector cars
at one point they were just old cars/used cars
many had very lil' value... were gas guzzlers in the 1st gas crisis
I bought them for $150 to $1500 'all day long'
or had them given to me even
the lady of the house/gramma or grandpa/heirs, you name it
just wanted them gone
(many were considered an eye sore)
back in the mid-late 70s

not any more

Opinions will vary, that's mine mine

 

[Ron H]

Never gave deep thought to defining a clone; but an original GTX, Cuda, GTO, 442, etc. isn’t clone material. Anyone clone a GTX to be a Satellite or a 442 to a Cutlass? On the latter, I semi-cloned my mother’s ’72 Cutlass Supreme vert to appear like a 442. Semi – no 455 motor; but nicely re-done 350 it had stock, beefed suspension, rally package/gauges, wheels, strips, and duals. Only way one could note it was fake was looking at the motor or tag. But, I’d take a nicely cloned GTX, or Cuda and drive it all day. Lol, but it’s only a clone dude! Yeah – it is; any other questions?

 

[RemCharger]

I was showing some one my GTX and it came with a U code ( 1971 G block) engine that someone change to a U code (1970 F block), It was a 4 speed car but we changed it to a Tremec 5 speed. He insisted it was a clone GTX even though the vin number starts with RS. Some people you have to walk away from. Where is the line of a factory car to a clone?

Never gave deep thought to defining a clone; but an original GTX, Cuda, GTO, 442, etc. isn’t clone material. Anyone clone a GTX to be a Satellite or a 442 to a Cutlass? On the latter, I semi-cloned my mother’s ’72 Cutlass Supreme vert to appear like a 442. Semi – no 455 motor; but nicely re-done 350 it had stock, beefed suspension, rally package/gauges, wheels, strips, and duals. Only way one could note it was fake was looking at the motor or tag. But, I’d take a nicely cloned GTX, or Cuda and drive it all day. Lol, but it’s only a clone dude! Yeah – it is; any other questions?

Haha yep, should have kept some satellite emblems in the glove box.
Say you're going to clone it next winter.

 

[tom jaffeux]

Let’s add this to this Conversation. What do we call all these late 60s and early 70s abodies and bbodies with the new hemi engine in them and what are there worth over a original car with its original engine.

 

[WileERobby]

Let’s add this to this Conversation. What do we call all these late 60s and early 70s abodies and bbodies with the new hemi engine in them and what are there worth over a original car with its original engine.

we call them "resto-mods".. what they are worth vs. the original drivetrain is irrelevant to this thread... if the VIN is "RS" then the car is a GTX...period... a "clone" is a vehicle that was not originally what it is now presented as. I'll give you an example: someone takes a belvedere or satellite (per IT'S VIN) and subsequently equips it with the drivetrain, suspension, trim, etc. and exterior badging to present it as a road runner or GTX.

 

[chtampa]

Smile and say, "Have a nice day". Why would someone else's opinion of your car hold any merit? Don't give other people the power to upset you. If you introduced him to your girlfriend, would you accept his idea of whether she had a boob job?

 

[YY1]

I doubt anyone will call my RL21 base Satellite an SSP clone even though it now has a lot of SSP options installed.

 

[Ron H]

Or you could say it came down the same assembly line and the supervisor had a late bowling night handing out the wrong build sheet for it – it was supposed to be a RR..

 

[chtampa]

Have fun with the next guy. Tell him how you think Satellites are a prettier car and you are in the process of making a clone but haven't taken all the GTX emblems off yet.

 

[Stucat]

Something new to talk about, I looked at a rebody Daytona a few years back. the car was in a roll over, body trashed, the owner had pice of the before and after. a 500 body was used, numbers where installed on the 500 body, as was the matching drive train, steel nose and 2/3 of the original wing, car looked good, was sold just before I got there. when talking to the owner( had it 5 years) about all the worked they did and why. He said he couldn't let the Daytona dies , it needed to be reborn, because of what it was, He was straight up with what he did in a folder. I should have got there sooner $50,000.00 was a deal, Clones are way past that.

 

[440 PHIXX]

None of it matters unless you are buying or selling. But, that’s why it matters. I’ve always been a hot rodder. I guess I bought the wrong cars.