Which Eldebrock for Stock 440

[hunt2elk]

If a guy had to pick from the 2 choices you gave, I would go with the 800 every single time. I experimented years ago on a stockish 383 with Edelbrock 750 and 650 carbs. Honestly couldn't tell a bit of difference in throttle response between the 2 like people claimed I would. There was however a noticeable difference everywhere else. The 650 just didn't cut the mustard for ripping around. Maybe because it was a 4-speed car, idk. IMO, 383 and 440's need a 750 at the minimum and tune it to the motor.

 

[ruffcut]

How much tuning have you guys done on out of the box edlebrock carbs? This motor is stock with stock cast iron intake.

I put a 800 AVS2 on a 512 cu in stroker w/10 to 1 comp and headers. 600 lift hyd roller cam. Had to go smaller primary jets w/ same metering rods.
Info on my build. Maybe it will help someone? ruffcut

 

[RemCharger]

We did many mods on many different engines from various manufacturers. And this proved to be the best, most versatile, responsive carb for street/strip applications. What prompts your comment about holleys ?

Ignorance.

 

[496 polara]

On a stock motor with an iron intake I would run the 650 AVS if it were mine. Stock intake is gonna kill any real power anyway IMO. If you are planning on future upgrades then get the 800 and you don't need another carb later.

Lots of carbs will run fine so it comes to personal preference or what you are familiar tuning.

 

[AR67GTX]

I ran a second-hand 800 AFB Edelbrock on my stock 67 GTX 440 for years and it ran strong after I got the jetting and rods sorted out during a rebuild. But last year I put a restored stock Carter 4327S (AFB) on it and while not a great difference, it does seem just a bit sharper and more responsive. Of course an AVS style would be a little more tunable for secondary timing.

 

[WileERobby]

Below, for one: 17 hp more, 17 ft lbs more, & used less fuel doing it 625 AFB v 600 Holley.
A Holley 4150 carb can never be a responsive as a met rod carb because of the tortuous fuel flow path of the Holley PV system.

View attachment 1490745

That's all well and fine, I can cut & paste magazine articles and ads, as well. Back in the day in the garage I worked, we didn't have a dynamometer. Our dyno was the driver's seat of the pants. And the Holleys proved to be an optimum street/strip carb on varying applications.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

I had the 800cfm avs2 on my 350hp 440. A little tuning, and it was awesome. The throttle response cold or hot was great. It’s an awesome carburetor, and I highly recommend it if you’re going the edelbrock route.

 

[WileERobby]

This motor is stock with stock cast iron intake.

In that case, if you're going with the AVS, I'd go 800 especially if you plan any future mods.

 

[Some Car Guy]

Avs2 should be the one with annular boosters. that alone makes it a strong choice. I don’t know why guys keep insisting a big vacuum secondary carb is a problem. Putting a small carb on a big block mopar is a real cockblock.

 

[66 Sat]

If you buy a Holley, keep the box & throw away the contents....

The Great $299 Carburetor Shootout - Car Craft Magazine

Here's another article Geoff that shows little difference between the carbs in terms of horsepower.
It's obvious you don't like Holleys - no need to ram it down everyone's throat at every opportunity. It's becoming like the green bearing issue - "just my opinion of course" if you know what I mean.

However...I'm no carb expert so if you wanted to actually give some  reasoning for your dislike then it would be appreciated.

I've had 5 Holley carbs over the last 25 years on 3 different cars:
2 were brand new - no issues.
2 were second hand - no issues.
1 was a dodgy 600 from a truck motor and a mishmash of different parts and was a nightmare.

Holley are probably the biggest carb manufacturer in the world.

To say that all their products are junk is plain wrong.

 

[Cojohnso1]

The rule of thumb for street performance is the smallest carburetor that provides the CFM the engine and build requires. Primarily due to better throttle response. Thus for a stock (or very near stock) 440 HP? A 750 I believe is the manufacturer recommendation.

I run a 750 Holley with very good street results on a 440 only slightly higher build than pure stock. (A slight step up MP purple grind cam, with some mild head work. Stock bottom end.) thru a dual plane Edelbrock performer manifold. Stock HP exhaust manifolds (full exhaust.)

Just my opinion of course.

 

[lewtot184]

there's probably several different types and sizes of carbs that will run fine. if it were me i'd do a 1407 edelbrock. it's identical in size to the factory '67 440 375hp carb. my real preference is a stock avs but unless your tuning skills are upscale the emissions calibration may frustrate you. the 800 edelbrock throttle bores are not a perfect match for the stock intake but the 750 edelbrocks are. a 3310 holley's bores match up well but the secondaries vacuum diaphragm rod will require a spacer on a stock intake.

 

[Kern Dog]

The Great $299 Carburetor Shootout - Car Craft Magazine

Here's another article Geoff that shows little difference between the carbs in terms of horsepower.
It's obvious you don't like Holleys - no need to ram it down everyone's throat at every opportunity. It's becoming like the green bearing issue - "just my opinion of course" if you know what I mean.

However...I'm no carb expert so if you wanted to actually give some  reasoning for your dislike then it would be appreciated.

I've had 5 Holley carbs over the last 25 years on 3 different cars:
2 were brand new - no issues.
2 were second hand - no issues.
1 was a dodgy 600 from a truck motor and a mishmash of different parts and was a nightmare.

Holley are probably the biggest carb manufacturer in the world.

To say that all their products are junk is plain wrong.

I agree. The guy does post some good tech but I don't agree with some of his opinions.
I have Holley or Holley based carburetors on 5 of my classics and they all run great and have no bad manners. I even got 15 mpg with this car:

With 495 cubes and a Tremec...all with a Demon 850 vacuum secondary carburetor. That is 15 mpg at 70 mph.

 

[RJRENTON]

Holley 3310.

Yes.....Holley model 4150, R-3310-1 780 CFM with downleg secondary booster venturii assemblies. And your choice of automatic electric choke, automatic hot air choke or manual choke. Far and away better than any Edelbrock (aka Eddy), Weber but almost a good as the OEM Carter AVS.......the wheels fell off the Edelbrock band wagon years ago....not impressed just a pp copy of the Carter AVS design.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Geoff 2]

66 Sat,
Toyota are the biggest car maker in the world. Does that mean they are the best?

I never said all Holley products were bad. I like the 4360 carbs which were well designed [ probably because of ideas borrowed from Carter carbs ]. Their intake manifolds that I have used are also very well made & performed very well.
As for failings of the 4150 Holley, there are many, but here are a few:
- early models leaked fuel from the acc pump transfer port because of poor design. A first year engineering student could have seen the problem. It took H many years to fix the problem with a brass tube & o rings.
- the PV joke. Using a rubber membrane with such low operating forces, where the rubber is affected by engine heat, drying out from periods of non-use etc; these can change the rubber characteristics such that a 4.5 PV might become a 10.5 over time. And of course no protection from an engine backfire...
- original gaskets were cork. These could & would block passages, dry out if car not used for a while, causing mysterious/odd problems.
- idle mixture screws not at the point of A/F delivery, so vague adjustment.
- the original circular PV cavity in the met block had the delivery holes to the main well half way up the cavity. This caused a delay in throttle response because the cavity had to fill with fuel & cover the holes...before any fuel got delivered to the boosters. I see later models [ & the clones ], have the holes lower down.....Hmm.
- if you check out the torturous route fuel has to travel from the PV cavity [ once the PV opens to supply additional fuel ], a 4150 can never have the throttle response of a met rod carb where the fuel has less distance to travel & less turns to negotiate to get the booster.

 

[RJRENTON]

66 Sat,
Toyota are the biggest car maker in the world. Does that mean they are the best?

I never said all Holley products were bad. I like the 4360 carbs which were well designed [ probably because of ideas borrowed from Carter carbs ]. Their intake manifolds that I have used are also very well made & performed very well.
As for failings of the 4150 Holley, there are many, but here are a few:
- early models leaked fuel from the acc pump transfer port because of poor design. A first year engineering student could have seen the problem. It took H many years to fix the problem with a brass tube & o rings.
- the PV joke. Using a rubber membrane with such low operating forces, where the rubber is affected by engine heat, drying out from periods of non-use etc; these can change the rubber characteristics such that a 4.5 PV might become a 10.5 over time. And of course no protection from an engine backfire...
- original gaskets were cork. These could & would block passages, dry out if car not used for a while, causing mysterious/odd problems.
- idle mixture screws not at the point of A/F delivery, so vague adjustment.
- the original circular PV cavity in the met block had the delivery holes to the main well half way up the cavity. This caused a delay in throttle response because the cavity had to fill with fuel & cover the holes...before any fuel got delivered to the boosters. I see later models [ & the clones ], have the holes lower down.....Hmm.
- if you check out the torturous route fuel has to travel from the PV cavity [ once the PV opens to supply additional fuel ], a 4150 can never have the throttle response of a met rod carb where the fuel has less distance to travel & less turns to negotiate to get the booster.

Absolutely incorrect assumptions.....all of your suppositions listed are opinions. Have you actually designed or tuned a Holley? Or are you just repeating some others opinion. If you want to discuss each of your comments individually and in depth, send me a PM. I'm the person that questioned your understanding of the carb's differential pressure principle of operation which, seemed beyond your comprehension....regardless of your present vocation.......
BOB RENTON

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

I could have misread the title, but I’m pretty sure the guy isn’t debating Holley vs Edelbrock. I think he’s asking what size edelbrock carb he should get.

Edelbrocks are fantastic carbs, they aren’t just a copy/paste of carters.

 

[Geoff 2]

Bob Renton,

[1] Point out what was incorrect in post #35
[2] Point out or reprint what I said [ or didn't say ] about carb diff pressures. I already knew & didn't need your know-all attitude to tell me.
[3] I have tuned many Holley 4160/4150 carbs...& probably did before you did.
[4] What is beyond your comprehension is that others might know more than you do.
[5] Do not wait for any PMs. I do not need any 'explanations' from you.

 

[AA1 68 R/T]

I could have misread the title, but I’m pretty sure the guy isn’t debating Holley vs Edelbrock. I think he’s asking what size edelbrock carb he should get.

Edelbrocks are fantastic carbs, they aren’t just a copy/paste of carters.

You are correct lol
This is my first eddy carb. I’ve always ran Holley carbs including my six pack I’ve rand for about 31 years lol