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What is your opinion on VIN swaps?

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
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I see this becoming a hot topic again. Some people that I respect seem to have no problem with it but it rubs me the wrong way. They claim that they are not doing it to cars that will be misrepresented or sold but what happens in the future? Owners die, cars get sold and new owners may be thinking that they have a legitimate title and history when they have a fake.
Nobody that I have known has done this to any Hemi or 440-6 car. I'm talking about regular enthusiasts with cheaper A body cars.
One guy claimed to have a car that was too rusty to save but had current registration. He bought another car from a junkyard that wouldn't give him a title.
Another likes to buy 1974-76 Dusters and Dart Sports to convert to 70-71 Dusters and 71 Demons.
I have some experience with metalwork. It isn't hard to cut out numbers and patch them into another car place. My understanding is that ANY tampering with a VIN is a federal offense. What about the people with E body cars that get their dash pad restored? The VIN tag gets removed for that kind of work.
I have owned cars that I bought without a title. In this regulation rich climate of California, it isn't that difficult to get a title. Even if you get a car that has no VIN, the state issues an alternate VIN that is attached somewhere else.
 
If you do it with the intentions of Scamming people and Greed, Then your just immoral.

I Personaly rather have a Rebodied car with as Much OEM USA steel as possible then A car with more then half of its panels made From Taiwan.
 
do your homework, if a car looks fishy.
walk away.
if you got big balls you will explain to the seller your honest thoughts in a professional manner.
 
Yes...this it a hot topic indeed......

I have no issue if a guy is removing a vin plate to restore it and the car is legit. When you send your dash out to the places to restore them, that is what they do. Still it falls in the "tampering" category but whom would spend the money to prosecute a guy just restoring a VIN on a legit car....

As far as cutting out rad supports, trunk lips and placing it on another car. Well that is simply fraud period.....Then when it is done in a way for a massive profit that goes beyond fraud. However, if the car is publicized as a "rebody" sure it is fraud but at least it is a known fake....

Sometimes the intentions fit the crime and sometimes they do not......It is the heart that decides what is the appropriate next step....
 
It's a felony, don't need to say much more. Me personally.... I think the States set up the scenario by being asses about missing titles. Yes in some cases you can get a title but in many the clerk simply says "no title, no registration" leaving a lot of otherwise nice cars to rot away. I would never do it but could care less if someone did it for the right reasons.
 
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All the legalities issues aside, if THAT VIN was not on THAT body when it was assembled at the factory, it is a fraud.
 
It's a hot topic because everyone has an opinion.
And very little facts.
The laws were written for insurance companies and new cars.
Not saving antiques.
 
In the state of Ohio it's not fraud to replace a body with a donor car body, The state HP has a form for that. The car gets inspected, certified and a special vin given.
 
In the years before these cars became golden, I ended up with a few without titles. Had one car that was a total wreck with a good title and one that was a decent driver but without a title. It wasn't anything special or something anyone would pay much for but I needed a driver so after checking to make sure it wasn't stolen, I did the dirty deed. Drove the wheels off of it and years later it got parted out. Several years later I bought a 70 318 Barracuda body with no title to build as a drag car and part way through the build, a guy offered what I thought was stupid money for the body. All he wanted was the shell, one door and the deck lid and nothing else and that's what he got. He even told me it was for a rebody for his 70 383 4 speed Cuda which was a total rust bucket. The guy owned a body shop so I knew he could pull it off without no one ever knowing it and if he decided to ever sell the car, I knew he wouldn't be truthful about so I was reluctant to sell it to him but money got bigger. I saw the finished product about a year later and it was just like I thought it would be....looked like it was brand new and could not tell it from the real deal and he let me look it over real good too. Not sure what happened to that car but about a year later I heard the shop was closed and he was in jail but have no idea for what.
 
It's a felony, don't need to say much more. Me personally.... I think the States set up the scenario by being asses about missing titles. Yes in some cases you can get a title but in many the clerk simply says "no title, no registration" leaving a lot of otherwise nice cars to rot away. I would never do it but could care less if someone did it for the right reasons.

It's not a felony unless you stole the car and stripped it and rebuilt it as another!
If you run the vin it always belongs to someone or a estate. Guys like you that scream IT'S A FELONY, IT'S A FELONY all I can say is get a life!
 
Legal implications aside, at some point, somebody is going to end up with a car that isn't what they thought they bought-and paid for. In my opinion, that alone, makes it bogus
 
It's not a felony unless you stole the car and stripped it and rebuilt it as another!
If you run the vin it always belongs to someone or a estate. Guys like you that scream IT'S A FELONY, IT'S A FELONY all I can say is get a life!
I've been threw the legal process of titling a car with a missing title and the Troopers at the inspection station were very clear about it being a felony to tamper with a VIN plate. Read the title "VIN swapping" and the original post, he's talking about misrepresentation of a car. Guess what the Troopers consider a car that's unidentifiable.... stolen then they crush them or at least in Ohio they do.

Get a life:rolleyes:
 
I was told by the HP salvage unit in Cleveland that if my car lets say ebody was hit so hard that the firewall had to be replaced and the core support the only place the vin is on a ebody, using new AMD parts now the car doesn't have a vin # at all. They told me I had to cut out my #s and keep them with the title to ID the car. Also the vin is on the transmission. I can take 2 cars and make 1, it's legal.
As I said I can use a donor body and crush my original body and it is legal if you go through the correct procedure. Vin swapping is what it is, if it's rebuilding an old car it's legal, if you do it for profit and misrepresent a car than that's a buyer beware, and if it's stolen than you go to jail. If misrepresentation was illegal than every car salesman would be in jail. Vin swapping has different labels some say it's a fine line others say it's cut and dry, but saving my old car from the crusher is not illegal or immoral. It's the guys that have a all original car that don't want anybody else to have one like it that scream fraud the loudest. So yours is better, who cares!
 
Arizona issues a new vin & title to reconstructs, not to be confused with the factory vin.
 
it's all about stolen cars, parts, and chop shops........ new and used body parts are sold and used every day since the model T hit the streets...... "rebodying" occurs every day, in every body shop in the world

no one seems to care that an engine with a stamped VIN is put into another car, but some solid donor metal? oh, the horror!
 
Its done every day in the Hot rod and Rat Rod world and know ones cares.You think all those glass 41 Willys and 32 Fords have legit paper work? Not,every rod and car swap here in WI has at least one guy selling clear paperwork.
 
this site and many others are full of guys who cobble together a solid body and "swap" their VIN into it.......... it's call "restoring rusty, smashed junk"

I guess I am one of the lucky ones, my car retains about 60% of its original body....... how bout yours?

unmolested survivors are getting hard to come by....... I guess some may prefer a bondo buggy; with rotted, unsafe rails falling apart at the suspension points
 
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