The Elephant in the room

[THE STIG]

I searched all over the forums for this but found nothing and I really diden't want to be the one to bring it up but maybe you noticed over the last few weeks that the cost of gas has creeped up a bit, apparently the wind blew and it caused the price to jump just a smidgin that and somthing about a traveling circus rolling through Northern Africa and the Middle East. Anyhow I just happened to stumble on this artice here on E85 conversion: http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_1104_project_old_school_e85_conversion/index.html and it got me thinking. But I still have some questions, after a conversion is done can you still run on regular gas if E85 is unavailable? What would it cost on one of our cars? Is there an EFI option? I live in Indiana and suposidly this stuff is more redily availablein the midwest but I know of only one station in my area that sells it but at $2.85 a gallon versus $3.45 for regular old dinosaur juice it's definetly got me wondering. The only downside I see is that if everbody in this country starts to use ethanol it would bankrupt those nice fellas in OPEC.

 

[69hemibeep]

I searched all over the forums for this but found nothing and I really diden't want to be the one to bring it up but maybe you noticed over the last few weeks that the cost of gas has creeped up a bit, apparently the wind blew and it caused the price to jump just a smidgin that and somthing about a traveling circus rolling through Northern Africa and the Middle East. Anyhow I just happened to stumble on this artice here on E85 conversion: http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_1104_project_old_school_e85_conversion/index.html and it got me thinking. But I still have some questions, after a conversion is done can you still run on regular gas if E85 is unavailable? What would it cost on one of our cars? Is there an EFI option? I live in Indiana and suposidly this stuff is more redily availablein the midwest but I know of only one station in my area that sells it but at $2.85 a gallon versus $3.45 for regular old dinosaur juice it's definetly got me wondering. The only downside I see is that if everbody in this country starts to use ethanol it would bankrupt those nice fellas in OPEC.

You would have to rejet to use gas. But we are worse than OPEC when oil goes up why does ethanol? And why not tap our oil we have more than OPEC?

 

[Cranky]

Food for gas? Makes sense to me....NOT. It may be cheaper at the pump but you're going to pay for it in one form or another....unless you don't buy groceries. Why this country doesn't convert to nat gas is beyond me and 69 hit the nail on the head about tapping into our own oil but I don't see that happening anytime soon. This admin was looking for a reason to shut down the Gulf and got it when BP screwed up. Damn moron politicians and their tree hugging liberal asswipe buddies....

 

[SirSixPack]

Ask our Canadian Mopar Brothers about high gas prices. They have always had it much worse than us.

I think its all relative to what you are used to.

 

[Cranky]

Canada also has higher gas taxes than we do but that's going to change and it already has gone up some lately in most places. Gotta pay for social programs somehow and this new health care program that they are trying to shove down our throats isn't cheap. I'll be the first to admit that our present system needs a work over but not like this!

 

[THE STIG]

You would have to rejet to use gas. But we are worse than OPEC when oil goes up why does ethanol? And why not tap our oil we have more than OPEC?

Ethanol goes up when gas does becouse what choice does the consumer have, pay for inflated ethanol or even more inflated gas plus there is the argument that the trucks that deliver the ethanol to the stations are powered by evan higher priced diesel. And I agree 1000% about tapping our own reserves, why buy from people who openly hate us when we already have it right here. Venezuela is paying the equivilant to $0.25 per gallon.

 

[Revhendo]

Geez, when you said "Elephant in the Room" I thought you were talking about me. I know I've put a few pounds on, but still......

Might I point out that E85 may be great stuff and all, but the price is illusionary. Currently the cost of E85 is subsidized by the government. Whattya think will happen when that stops?

 

[Donny]

E85 has less power per gallon than gasoline, and it takes more E85 to move the same vehicle the same distance that gasoline will move it, and, it's making our food prices higher!

 

[Meep-Meep]

Geez, when you said "Elephant in the Room" I thought you were talking about me. I know I've put a few pounds on, but still......

Might I point out that E85 may be great stuff and all, but the price is illusionary. Currently the cost of E85 is subsidized by the government. Whattya think will happen when that stops?

And I was looking for pictures of a HEMI in someone's kitchen.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Food for gas? Makes sense to me....NOT. It may be cheaper at the pump but you're going to pay for it in one form or another....unless you don't buy groceries. Why this country doesn't convert to nat gas is beyond me and 69 hit the nail on the head about tapping into our own oil but I don't see that happening anytime soon. This admin was looking for a reason to shut down the Gulf and got it when BP screwed up. Damn moron politicians and their tree hugging liberal asswipe buddies....

There you go making sense again. Sometimes I wonder if BP was really an accident. I also hear China is making deals with Cuba to explore for oil and that's not exactly half way around the world from us - http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/article1085129.ece

I wish I could convince the Gov't that good 'ol black gold is pretty darn efficient stuff - a lot better than burning our food and driving a subsidized Prius.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I understand the thinking behind your point. Why not make some basic mods and pay $1.00 less per gallon? It will work in the short term but not sustainable as pointed out. Diesel is also a good option - much better than a hybrid I think - but we can't run our MoPars on it. Natural gas may be good too. It boils down to the energy released from the fuel and with methane being CH4 compared to gas C8H18 it would be better than alcohol I would think. Propane is C3H8, getting closer to gas, so I suppose that's an option also. I remember propane conversions from the 70's and not to mention all the forklifts that run on it today. I think UPS runs natural gas in their trucks. Hmmmmm, propane or natural gas powered HEMI Belvedere?? Shhhhhh, don't tell Obama!

 

[Randy73]

I understand the thinking behind your point. Why not make some basic mods and pay $1.00 less per gallon? It will work in the short term but not sustainable as pointed out. Diesel is also a good option - much better than a hybrid I think - but we can't run our MoPars on it. Natural gas may be good too. It boils down to the energy released from the fuel and with methane being CH4 compared to gas C8H18 it would be better than alcohol I would think. Propane is C3H8, getting closer to gas, so I suppose that's an option also. I remember propane conversions from the 70's and not to mention all the forklifts that run on it today. I think UPS runs natural gas in their trucks. Hmmmmm, propane or natural gas powered HEMI Belvedere?? Shhhhhh, don't tell Obama!

Wow, I have seen some crazy posts.
If we started drilling today at every known oil deposit in the US and surrounding waters, it would be almost 10 yrs to show up at the pump.

Pure gasoline has problems, hence the lead, then MTPE, now ethanol.

We import 51.8% of our oil and that is down from where we were in 2000, ever notice that with in a year of Bush Sr letting hedge funds and the like get into oil investing, that the price of oil has steadily gone up????

Thank Carter for the drilling problems in the gulf.

Propane is not viable in a car, 1st is the weight of the tanks and second is the danger of fire and explosions.

The average tax on gasoline is over $.40 a gallon, California being over $.60.

We will never be oil independent, as most people do not care, a recent study said that if US citizens changed their oil at the cars recommended intervals and not 3k miles, we would use about 500k barrels less oil each year.
So do not blame OPEC, blame ourselves.

And I saved the best for last, we cut taxes for big oil companies, has anybody seen them pass on the savings to us ???

 

[66 coronet]

I read on another site that it takes like two gallons of oil for every three gallons of ethanol produced, so if this is correct the price of ethanol will just go up along with the gas prices. The united states has enjoyed the lowest gas prices in the world for a long time, if oil is taken off the dollar standard and put on a euro standard that will change quick.

 

[THE STIG]

I read on another site that it takes like two gallons of oil for every three gallons of ethanol produced, so if this is correct the price of ethanol will just go up along with the gas prices. The united states has enjoyed the lowest gas prices in the world for a long time, if oil is taken off the dollar standard and put on a euro standard that will change quick.

Or better yet we could back the dollar with gold rather than happy thoughts and warm feelings but that's a whole other debate all together.

 

[SirSixPack]

Or better yet we could back the dollar with gold rather than happy thoughts and warm feelings but that's a whole other debate all together.

There is not enough gold on Earth to back our economy. Not even close.

The USA is just that rich, or there is just not enough gold available. However you'd like to look at it.

 

[Meep-Meep]

It is mathematically impossible to pay off the debt. Literally, if you add up everything in the US that has value you still can't pay it off.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...y-impossible-to-pay-off-the-u-s-national-debt

 

[Satellite65]

E-85 costs about 35% less than gas, but you'll burn about 35% more of it so there is no real savings.

My ex-neighbor's wife had a FlexFuel Tahoe. He made her run E-85 because it was cheaper. She complained that she was in the gas station (only one around here that sells the stuff) every other day and the truck's heat didn't get hot enough to defrost the windows. After about two weeks of this nonsense he switched back to gas.

E-85's a great race fuel and can save you a lot of money at the track as opposed to race gas but on the street it just doesn't seem to really make any sense.

 

[Donny]

Bingo; E85 is the phony bologna fodder for Liberals' agendas to make us all drive Prius' F that! Gasoline has the most bang per volume. The blown out deep water BP well in the gulf; that oil was all freshly made from the earth, and continuously made too. We are never running out of that stuff; the earth is making it all the time, we only go down a few miles, there's a LOT of dirt still left to dig through to get to the go-go juice!

 

[Randy73]

Bingo; E85 is the phony bologna fodder for Liberals' agendas to make us all drive Prius' F that! Gasoline has the most bang per volume. The blown out deep water BP well in the gulf; that oil was all freshly made from the earth, and continuously made too. We are never running out of that stuff; the earth is making it all the time, we only go down a few miles, there's a LOT of dirt still left to dig through to get to the go-go juice!

If you only knew what you were talking about, do some research before you start talking nonsense. When it was determined that MPFE caused cancer, a quick alternative was needed, hence why ethonal was used. E85 came about as a was to reduce our oil consumption, which it has, but has also caused corn to skyrocket. And if you think the earth is producing 25 million barrels of oil a day (that is only what the top 10 countries are using, not all), I have some land in the Florida Everglades I would like to sell you.

Another fact for you, a Republican, not a liberal was the one who brought up adding ethonal to gas( he was from Iowa).

Ethonal was meant as a stop gap measure, was never supposed to be the replacement.

 

[Cranky]

What kind of a profit margin does say Exxon make per year? What kind of a profit margin do the major drug compaines make? I already know but do you? And yes, the earth continues to produce new oil. We just don't know how much and how fast that happens. Stop gap measure? It was done by a politician in Iowa that saw dollar signs. Btw, Ethanol is corrosive as hell and makes gasoline go bad really fast and there was really nothing wrong with unleaded fuel....and what the hell is MPFE and MTPE? Do you mean MTBE?