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LS2 powered Roadrunner

LOL........ don't get hung up on the 65%. Yes an all numbers car will be worth more money to some but its not alway the case. You nailed it on the head :

that they want to maintain the original outward appearance with the new technology of current drive-trains for both power and economy

But I really doubt in a few years it will go backward to less efficient engines... If anything fuel prices will dictate the market... I can't wait to see the first real hybrid in a classic.... style is one thing functionality and practicality is another.... The more people see projects done correctly and the benefit of them the more the price on them will go up and the demand as well. Mass gasoline consumption in an engine is a thing of the past. Yes museum pieces and cars that get driven a couple hundred miles a year will always exists but who the eff wants a car they cant drive... Not me anyway... I buy them and own them to drive them.......

FYI the LSx engine I have is for a 79 z28, not for the Satellite but it would be real easy to do the same with the mopar. Half the people on the planet wouldn't know the difference anyway and if the car ran great, had great power and sounded even better it would sell in a heartbeat. Its the purists and collectors that would have an issue and most of them don't buy cars to drive anyway.... Thats the market difference I see.
But it isn't going backward due to the rising cost of gas and advancement of fuel hybrids. I'd like to drop a modern mopar drivetrain in the car I have but we'll see... right now the money is stupid on them. I make more power with a chevy engine and drivetrain for 1/3 the cost. No I am not going to do it right now but thats the way it is.
I'll sell the 79 z28 and use that money to build the mopar. Thats the plan
 
It's your car and you can do what you want with it. I admire innovation and respect what a lot of hot rodders have done. I really like posts where fabricators show their talents. However, when someone says to me that they're a mopar fan, they better not have a Chevy engine in their car or I'll walk away. No arguments, no discussions... I'd just rather talk to a real Mopar fan. I know...people can say "why reply to the post then?". Just my personal opinion and that's all I'm sayin.
 
99ss said:
LOL........ don't get hung up on the 65%. Yes an all numbers car will be worth more money to some but its not alway the case. You nailed it on the head :

that they want to maintain the original outward appearance with the new technology of current drive-trains for both power and economy

But I really doubt in a few years it will go backward to less efficient engines... If anything fuel prices will dictate the market... I can't wait to see the first real hybrid in a classic.... style is one thing functionality and practicality is another.... The more people see projects done correctly and the benefit of them the more the price on them will go up and the demand as well. Mass gasoline consumption in an engine is a thing of the past. Yes museum pieces and cars that get driven a couple hundred miles a year will always exists but who the eff wants a car they cant drive... Not me anyway... I buy them and own them to drive them.......

FYI the LSx engine I have is for a 79 z28, not for the Satellite but it would be real easy to do the same with the mopar. Half the people on the planet wouldn't know the difference anyway and if the car ran great, had great power and sounded even better it would sell in a heartbeat. Its the purists and collectors that would have an issue and most of them don't buy cars to drive anyway.... Thats the market difference I see.
But it isn't going backward due to the rising cost of gas and advancement of fuel hybrids. I'd like to drop a modern mopar drivetrain in the car I have but we'll see... right now the money is stupid on them. I make more power with a chevy engine and drivetrain for 1/3 the cost. No I am not going to do it right now but thats the way it is.
I'll sell the 79 z28 and use that money to build the mopar. Thats the plan
Click to expand...

Responses to the bolded areas of your above quote in order.

1. Don't count on it. Customization has ALWAYS been a very personalized thing that you then have to find a buyer that likes what YOU have done.

2. It is not 1/2 the people on the planet that are involved in our hobby if so there would be a lot more car shows in China.:icon_butt: It is the hobbist that you have to be concerned with when it comes time to sell.

3. NOTHING customized like you suggest sells in a hearbeat, see #1.

4. You have a lot to learn about the hobby. The vast majority of the hobby have cars they drive either as weekend, fair weather drivers, to daily drivers weather permitting and some drive them in any weather.

Have you noted a common thing in most of the above such as value?

It is always hard to change someones way of thinking once they have made up their mind that a certain direction they have taken or are planning to but I have been around this hobby for 43 years so don't let it fall on deaf ears.

You may also consider that I too am building a restified car, own a very rare original car and have a highly modified (from stock) classic truck. Check my signature.

My 69 M code A12 6 pack bee has a non-stock Mopar 440 based 523 six pack stroker roller cam engine, converted from factory auto trans and will be a 4 speed overdrive manual, converting to factory A/C, (not available on this car) upgraded factory appearing sound system and other modifications. I call the car restified (restored/modified) rather than a resto mod because it still runs original looking components rather than a current drive train in an old body. I am doing this car knowing full well that many purists cringe and that it will have a limited market when I decide to sell it but it is MY car so I will do it MY way. Money isn't ALWAYS the main consideration although I always keep it in the back of my mind.

I understand both side of what it cost to do these thing and don't kid myself about them but it sounds like you do. You won't be disappointed when you sell if you look at it realistically like I do.
 
696pack said:
Responses to the bolded areas of your above quote in order.

1. Don't count on it. Customization has ALWAYS been a very personalized thing that you then have to find a buyer that likes what YOU have done.

2. It is not 1/2 the people on the planet that are involved in our hobby if so there would be a lot more car shows in China.:icon_butt: It is the hobbist that you have to be concerned with when it comes time to sell.

3. NOTHING customized like you suggest sells in a hearbeat, see #1.

4. You have a lot to learn about the hobby. The vast majority of the hobby have cars they drive either as weekend, fair weather drivers, to daily drivers weather permitting and some drive them in any weather.

Have you noted a common thing in most of the above such as value?

It is always hard to change someones way of thinking once they have made up their mind that a certain direction they have taken or are planning to but I have been around this hobby for 43 years so don't let it fall on deaf ears.

You may also consider that I too am building a restified car, own a very rare original car and have a highly modified (from stock) classic truck. Check my signature.

My 69 M code A12 6 pack bee has a non-stock Mopar 440 based 523 six pack stroker roller cam engine, converted from factory auto trans and will be a 4 speed overdrive manual, converting to factory A/C, (not available on this car) upgraded factory appearing sound system and other modifications. I call the car restified (restored/modified) rather than a resto mod because it still runs original looking components rather than a current drive train in an old body. I am doing this car knowing full well that many purists cringe and that it will have a limited market when I decide to sell it but it is MY car so I will do it MY way. Money isn't ALWAYS the main consideration although I always keep it in the back of my mind.

I understand both side of what it cost to do these thing and don't kid myself about them but it sounds like you do. You won't be disappointed when you sell if you look at it realistically like I do.
Click to expand...

Such is the truth. If you're building a car and want to make real money on it, you better go stock. If you are building a car for yourself, mod away. You might break even. If I were to go with a modern drivetrain in either of my early Mopes you can bet it would be an GenIII Hemi. Short of that, I got a lot of respect for that Chevy LS motor. I have installed quite a few of them in customer cars and have grown to really appreciate that ugly lil bugger.
 
From a technical and a cost perspective it makes sense but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I even get squeamish when someone puts a SBC in a Pontiac.
 
Try to sell a roadrunner with a chevy engine and see how popular the swap is.
While the ls engine makes good horsepower it's an ugly engine, no style. Do a camshaft swap on the ls engine and expect to pay 300 to 600 dollars just for the cam. I would imagine if you try to run a factory EFI wiring harness that would be a nightmare unless you go to someplace like painless and that's not cheap. I'm sure remapping the ECM wouldn't be cheap. Go to a carb and expect to pay $700 for a intake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Edel...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5644e5fb4c

The reason you see ls engines in foxbody mustang is because anything chevy made after about 1980 is junk. The bodies and interiors just fall apart.

If I didn't have the money to build a mopar I would buy an eighties 5.0 and build a 347. But I would keep it Ford.
 
To each their own but as far as being more reliable.....I've never had an unreliable Mopar...but my dad had a 69 New Yorker that broke everything but the 440 engine. Maybe it was the 440 that was breaking everything else lol
 
LOL.. some of you get it some of you dont...
Yes the car is worth what someone will pay for it... no matter if its stock or custom.
Custom cars done right do sell for big money. Stock cars restored correctly do sell for big money. The market fluctuates on each monthly.


How ever the money break down was not close. I can make more power for less money, better power to weight ratio, and get better gas mileage with an LSx engine over a mopar big bock bored to what ever over. Those are the facts. Ugly? Well that all depends on how you like your intake and your ability to customize. I can make an LSx look like just about any old school anything..... wedge not included...hahahaha.. of course within reason.. some things you cant duplicate but valve covers arent that hard to have made.......
Yea I know some of you are purist and would never do it, but modding cars is as old as cars themselves, just takes an imagination... if a 57 Chevy custom can sell for 75,000 then I think we can get some bucks for a 70 custom or 73 or 69 or what ever you imagine
 
99ss said:
LOL.. some of you get it some of you dont...
Yes the car is worth what someone will pay for it... no matter if its stock or custom.
Custom cars done right do sell for big money. Stock cars restored correctly do sell for big money. The market fluctuates on each monthly.


How ever the money break down was not close. I can make more power for less money, better power to weight ratio, and get better gas mileage with an LSx engine over a mopar big bock bored to what ever over. Those are the facts. Ugly? Well that all depends on how you like your intake and your ability to customize. I can make an LSx look like just about any old school anything..... wedge not included...hahahaha.. of course within reason.. some things you cant duplicate but valve covers arent that hard to have made.......
Yea I know some of you are purist and would never do it, but modding cars is as old as cars themselves, just takes an imagination... if a 57 Chevy custom can sell for 75,000 then I think we can get some bucks for a 70 custom or 73 or 69 or what ever you imagine
Click to expand...

Um, yes, um, no. I do believe there is a point where the X into Y engine swap or "custom" thing will diminish in returns. Probably at a point worse than an X into X swap. I'm sure the guys doing the LS swaps into the 5.0 stangs aren't really concerned about resale. I know that building a 69 Camaro with all the good stuff available today (Hydroformed subframes, C6 spindles, LS7 and all....) won't bring what you put into it.

Someone mentioned the cost of the LS upgrades. Yep, it cost a bit, but so does any motor done right. Hell, I spent over 3 bones for the custom cam in my stroker. If you like them hundred dollar fitsall cams, then yeah, I reckon that can be a bit pricey. Then again, the stock LS2 of the original OP was a 400hp motor at the flywheel. What do you have to do/spend to get an honest number like that out of one of our stock motors and still be able to run on pump gas? AND get 20 some odd miles to the gallon? Sadly, Mother Mopar is just catching up to those numbers with the GenIII.

Am I saying that everyone should run out and put an LS motor in their Mopar? OH HELL NO! I'm just saying I get it. A GenIII Hemi swap is getting easier and easier by the day. Hopefully they will be as easy and as accessable as the LS swap is to the GM guys. Lots of folks are making huge strides in that area. Guys like Zack here are providing huge volumes of info.
I still love my 440/4spd '73 Roadrunner. I just believe there is enough room for everyone in here and maybe instead of just snuffing the other guy, see what they have done. You may not agree with everything, but you might see or learn something you like and could use on your ride.
 
Yup, engine swaps is what hot rodding is all about but man, I'm so sick of seeing Chevy engines in just about everything imaginable! How bout something different for a change? Dependable? There's plenty of dependable engine designs out there....
 
Cranky said:
Yup, engine swaps is what hot rodding is all about but man, I'm so sick of seeing Chevy engines in just about everything imaginable! How bout something different for a change? Dependable? There's plenty of dependable engine designs out there....
Click to expand...

I'm with ya, and I'll even try to remember that when I'm wrenching on that Nailhead Buford down at the shop.....
 
99ss said:
LOL.. some of you get it some of you dont...
Yes the car is worth what someone will pay for it... no matter if its stock or custom.
Custom cars done right do sell for big money. Stock cars restored correctly do sell for big money. The market fluctuates on each monthly.


Believe me, we get it and so will you when the day comes that you want to sell it.
Click to expand...
 
Revhendo said:
You may not agree with everything, but you might see or learn something you like and could use on your ride.
Click to expand...

Exactly right! For those who have been and are shoulder deep in all brands of cars, seeing other forms of ideas and engineering makes it easier to work on our own as well as improve what we got. I don't see anyone tossing flak at the drag cars....Take a look at some of the massive amounts of aftermarket parts making their way to those mopars. With a bunch of them, the only thing original with the entire engine is the block, not to mention all the other add on's/upgrades to the rest of the car. Where's the huge difference? Because this is driven on the street? Because of a block?

Before everyone starts dipping this guy in lava, maybe take a look at the work that had to be done to make it work. The ingenuity of it. Maybe it will shed some light or generate ideas for someone looking to toss in a new 392 or 5.7....

Myself, I have gained tons and tons of valuable information from peeking my head under the hood of a heavily modified 50's street rods, resto mod's, old coupe's w/chev-ford-mopar powerplant's and all the Drag Cars. Even Rice and Euro cars have sparked ideas. This guy took the leap, did his research, gathered the parts and took the time/effort to get the engine in there. If I met the guy and his car, I wouldn't be ripping on them, I would be asking how he managed to make it all work.
 
Propwash said:
Exactly right! For those who have been and are shoulder deep in all brands of cars, seeing other forms of ideas and engineering makes it easier to work on our own as well as improve what we got. I don't see anyone tossing flak at the drag cars....Take a look at some of the massive amounts of aftermarket parts making their way to those mopars. With a bunch of them, the only thing original with the entire engine is the block, not to mention all the other add on's/upgrades to the rest of the car. Where's the huge difference? Because this is driven on the street? Because of a block?

Before everyone starts dipping this guy in lava, maybe take a look at the work that had to be done to make it work. The ingenuity of it. Maybe it will shed some light or generate ideas for someone looking to toss in a new 392 or 5.7....

Myself, I have gained tons and tons of valuable information from peeking my head under the hood of a heavily modified 50's street rods, resto mod's, old coupe's w/chev-ford-mopar powerplant's and all the Drag Cars. Even Rice and Euro cars have sparked ideas. This guy took the leap, did his research, gathered the parts and took the time/effort to get the engine in there. If I met the guy and his car, I wouldn't be ripping on them, I would be asking how he managed to make it all work.
Click to expand...

A good example was posted on the A body site yesterday. Someone had put a turbo Mitsu 4 popper in a Dart and it rips a ten second quarter. May not entirely be my cup of tea, but I really would like to see what they did for the fuel system, engine management and the turbo/intercooler set up.
 
Cranky said:
Yup, engine swaps is what hot rodding is all about but man, I'm so sick of seeing Chevy engines in just about everything imaginable! How bout something different for a change? Dependable? There's plenty of dependable engine designs out there....
Click to expand...

Well I can understand that... LOL and for the record I nevert said I would do it. I said I can understand it and yes the LSx platform is cheap and powerful. I would not knock anyone for doing it and believe me if I did do it, it wouldnt hurt the car one single bit......

I have a sport satellite... never going to be a big dollar car.. if I drop a smooth running LSx in there and make 550 rwhp it isnt going to hurt the selling factor of the car one single bit.. conversely if I number matched it to the 318 and kept it stock hi book value on the car is only like 14,000 or so... in absolute mint condition
Have the car making 540 rwhp, sounding awesome with a good interior and nice paint job.. will bring more money than having it be slow and over priced....
there isnt a book value on customs to keep the price down...

You dont drive down the street with the hood open and we're not talking about trying to win trophies at classic car meets

I'm just saying I can respect someone elses hard work
 
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