Seeking advice as a serious buyer

[FridayGt]

Ok, didn't put this in my wanted ad, as I didn't want that to turn into a discussion thread. I'm looking for honest opinions on my buying situation. No holds barred, I'm wearing my think skin today and I have my flame suit on.

This is not a want to buy or a please help me look thread, this is more of a "What am I doing wrong thread?" Or more of a "Is this just what I have to expect?" kind of thread.

I've been looking to buy a driving project car for a while now, with cash in hand. I want it to have a big block and minimal at most rust. Manual would be great, but if not auto in floor will work for now and I can convert it later. Preferably a '70 - '72, but will consider a '69 or '68. My budget is now $9K.

Now, I've run across a few shady buyers that were being misleading and defenitely hiding things with their cars. One that seemed honest but backed out after arrangements had been made to go pick up the vehicle. I try not to blame him, I'm sure he got more money and the car seemed worth it, whatever. Thankfully no money had exchanged hands.

Most recently I had a scammer contact me about an ebay auction with a deal that was far too good to be true. As in a 1971 Roadrunner 440+6 with four in the floor in impeccable shape, for $9,500 including shipping! Long story short I called him Silly, explained to him what an IP address was and pressed on.

My question to you all is this; Is my price range what is bringing on so much shady dealings, or is this just par for the course? Am I expecting too much for what I'm willing to pay, thus bringing on a plethora of too good to be true situations? Or should I continue to wade through the BS and press on as I am?

As I stated in my welcome thread, I'm a n00b to all of this, with experience being limited to turbo 4 bangers. I look forward to your opinions, advice, personal experiences and criticisms. Thanks!

Oh, BTW, if you want the e-mail traffic for the '71 six pack scam, let me know, it's classy... lol.

 

[bluefury]

Shopper........

I'm looking for honest opinions on my buying situation. No holds barred, I'm wearing my think skin today and I have my flame suit on.

I've been looking to buy a driving project car for a while now, with cash in hand. I want it to have a big block and minimal at most rust. Manual would be great, but if not auto in floor will work for now and I can convert it later. Preferably a '70 - '72, but will consider a '69 or '68. My budget is now $9K.

My question to you all is this; Is my price range what is bringing on so much shady dealings, or is this just par for the course? Or should I continue to wade through the BS and press on as I am?

Your expectations seem to be reasonable enough. In this economy it is currently a buyers market with folks "needing" to sell rather then "wanting" to sell. Your budget of $9K should be enough to put you into a vehicle that will fill your requirements and be a fairly nice car needing minor mechanical updates or cosmetic upgrades.

You seem to be well aware of the scammers out there. Just be patient... Do your homework and be CAREFULL..!... Good luck with your search.

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

I would suggest not buying anything without laying eyes on it first. With a $9,000 budget you should be able to buy a nice driver quality car, if it doesn't have to be an original numbers matching factory musclecar. If you can be happy with a Satellite instead of a Roadrunner/ GTX, many of these cars have been modded over the years to match factory performance models. Figure a round trip plane ticket to look at your potential purchase or at least spend the money for an independent evaluation.I flew to Florida to look at a "never rusted" 64 Dodge 880 vert with an insurance apprasial for $38K. Once I purchased the plane ticket the next phone call to the seller brought out the "Oh did I mention the one spot of rust?" I went anyway, non refundable ticket $250,and looked it over to find patched lower quarters and soft floorboards. That $250 and a wasted day turned out to be a good investment! Misrepresented car ads are rampent and unless you are getting it for the value of the car as parts,go see it in person!

 

[lewtot184]

i've noticed when i put up some kind of want ad i get some ridiculous offer which i'm sure are scammers. $9000 for a drivable big block 4spd b-body with minimum body work is probably low, just my opinion. keep looking. maybe broaden your wish list to some '60's cars.

 

[Mooky]

its the fast buck problem....5 hillbillies with a few ok 68 to 74 mopar's have seen the auctions shows on cable and now think they have 1 of 10 ever built 4 door 72 Plymouth whatever and want o say 10k for it cause "your never gonna find one in this shape for this money again"...thppppppp.....ya you will, you just might have to travel a ways to get it...I bought a 1972 satty column shift small block car that was garaged since 78 for 1600$ and it ran after a few odds and ends and the brakes bled up nicely....Craigslist .....there is a nice 73 black rr clone with a 360 4 speed manual on the list here in MI for 3200$ and it is guaranteed to make you happy or so it says...looks great for the money..so ya they are out there...your 9k budget puts you with the scammers that use shady body work and rattle can rebuilds and phony fender tag to make it a 1 of 1...just weed through them and if your gut tells you it's no good...then listen to it...its kept you from throwing up in the past if you listen to it ;) "patience Luke, let the force guide you" lol but good luck and be careful, I realy do hope you find a cherry for the right price.

 

[yellowdartdave]

I can see it now...

" Little Rust "


(.......surrounded by large expanse of open air.)

Been there, done that, have the T-shirt as well as the jacket.

 

[696pack]

I would suggest not buying anything without laying eyes on it first. With a $9,000 budget you should be able to buy a nice driver quality car, if it doesn't have to be an original numbers matching factory musclecar. If you can be happy with a Satellite instead of a Roadrunner/ GTX, many of these cars have been modded over the years to match factory performance models. Figure a round trip plane ticket to look at your potential purchase or at least spend the money for an independent evaluation.I flew to Florida to look at a "never rusted" 64 Dodge 880 vert with an insurance apprasial for $38K. Once I purchased the plane ticket the next phone call to the seller brought out the "Oh did I mention the one spot of rust?" I went anyway, non refundable ticket $250,and looked it over to find patched lower quarters and soft floorboards. That $250 and a wasted day turned out to be a good investment! Misrepresented car ads are rampent and unless you are getting it for the value of the car as parts,go see it in person!

Unless the car is close by flying to see or paying experts is unrealistic in this price range as it will add at LEAST 15% to the purchase price. If you wait the two weeks to get a reasonable plane ticket and the car is priced well it will likely be sold before you get there. Experts are too expensive for a car in this price range.

There is no reason with the Internet and asking for GOOD pictures of the areas that you NEED to see that you can't make a good buying decision long distance. You need to ask the RIGHT questions about many areas of the car. Ask the seller to back up his comments by guarenteeing in writing on the purchase agreement that he will take the car back, refund the money and shipping charges if it is not as represented. A seller is not likely to out and out lied to you when he is going to eat it.

Always be prepared for the cars cosmetics to look better in pictures then in real life as that is just the way it is with pictures.

 

[shag766]

1st off you are a tad bit low on the $ side. i am not saying you won't find one but you have to go through the b.s. to find it. i would consider a small block at that price range. you would have a better chance finding a nice one that is driveable and save more $ for the conversion and you would know what you are putting into it for power and only have to do it once.
example; i did it in reverse to you. i bought the power first, 69 rebuilt hemi engine then went looking for the car to put it in. ended up buying a 69 coronet hard top black plated from L.A. 318 c.i. but really nice shape. took about a year to find the right one. the conversion is just about done and i will end up with approx. 30,00.00 in a 69, rebuilt hemi, 5 speed tremec, dana 60. not bad.
you just have to sift through the b.s. to get there. its all part of the process. remember you are in the drivers seat with cash in your hand. the seller has to prove what he has is real. my .02 cents:headbang:

 

[FridayGt]

Thanks guys, ok, let me take this in order;

@bluefury, thanks. This is the conclusion that I had come to after searching for a while and raising my previously too low budget up to $9K.

@68sportsatelliteragtop, I had been thinking the same thing for quite a while actually. Limiting my search to only what I could drive to on the weekend. I have since reconsidered as looking long distance opens up my options so much more it seems. The reason I reconsidered is that I found a third party inspection company that would send me a detailed enough report to be comfortable with.

@lewtot, thanks for the opinion. I defenitely understand that I may have to give and take on some options depending on the quality of what is being offered. For some things, like a third pedal, I can do later which will bring the dollar value down. Ultimately, if the deal was too good to pass up and not too far off of my budget, I'd do it. Something like all of my wants being met and being met in great shape and not too far away. Heck, for a dream car, I'd glady add another 50% to my budget, but it'd have to be a dream.

@Mooky, Hahahaha! Thanks bud. You are right though, my gut saved me from the scammer and that extra triple of bourbon the other weekend... lol. If nothing else, it is at least comforting to know that my budget puts me in that range. It at least explains it.

@696Pack, I was able to find third party inspectors for between the $275 and $400 range depending on the vehicle's location from a major city and I wouldn't consider that to be part of my budget. But, I defenitely agree about waiting to get a ticket. I think waiting to drive the long distance is what had the last one get away. When I get back close to buying again, if it's to far to check out, I'll write up an agreement with the seller that tries to be reasonable to both parties. Heck I write them for work, I should be able to squeak someting together. I am, however, going on the assumption that anything coming my way will need at least some level of paint. Especially in my price range. Thanks man.

@shaq766, Thanks. Defenitely something that has crossed my mind, and for the right price I would defenitely consider something that would require a swap down the road, like over the winter... It just has to be worth it dollar wise.

 

[Jonnyuma]

Have you considered attending an auction?
I know Barrett-Jackson gets all the glory. But Mecum, Russo & Steele, RM, Gooding, Silver, plus dozens of smaller outfits hold auctions several times a year at different venues around the country. Naturally the big ticket, high buck cars get the TV coverage, but they handle moderately priced vehicles too.
Hemmings often posts a handful of auction results, along with upcoming events.
Sounds like a fine way to spend a few vacation days to me.

 

[Southernman]

Another, very good, option is to seek out, and attend, as many car shows as you can. Many events are mfg-centric, so you can literally shop while you browse the shows. A lot of the cars you see there will be for sale.

Attend local car gatherings. Here in Raleigh, we have a car event almost every weekend during the summer. Many of those cars show up with For Sale signs on them, and I've seen some that were priced to sell.

Seek out some of the local car guys that mess with Mopars, and start to network with them. I've found that a lot of guys are "sitting on" prospective deals, simply because of bad timing, but they're usually willing to share prospects to help promote the hobby - and brand.

The more "imbedded" you are within the hobby, the less chance you have to be duped, as word of mouth and the Mopar network is a fairly close nit group of people. For example, if there's a car for sale anywhere in NC, I can almost guarantee you that, with a few phone calls, someone knows both the person and, often times, some history on the cars.

This has been my experience, and I wish you well with your plan.

Southenman

 

[dgraver]

I saw that ebay listing with the 71 rr. That car was listed a few months ago, auction reached about $28k but the reserve was not met. It is an awesome, rare car worth a good money. When I saw it relisted, i looked in the description and saw the reserve of $9500 and screamed! I sent the seller an immediate message asking him to verify the price because it was crazy (I actually would have felt somewhat guilty getting it for that price) but never got a response. I had the previous listing saved from when it didnt meet the reserve, and I could see it was a scam, the new listing just stole 4 of the original listing pictures and copied some of the description word for word. Sad idiots like that are still living.

Pittsburgh has a very strong mopar presence, and I know a few guys who might have vehicles available that may interest you. I'm going to a big mopar show on Sunday and will see all of them there, let you know if I hear of anything. Good Luck!

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

Unless the car is close by flying to see or paying experts is unrealistic in this price range as it will add at LEAST 15% to the purchase price. If you wait the two weeks to get a reasonable plane ticket and the car is priced well it will likely be sold before you get there. Experts are too expensive for a car in this price range.



You don't have to book 2 weeks ahead to get a flight cheap. Sure the earlier you book the better the price but tickets are available through various internet sites cheaper than the airlines. I booked on a Wed. for a Sat AM,same week, flight out with an early PM return. $250 round trip w/ all fees. Pics and written agreements are great if the party is honest, but showing up in person is the BEST way to verify what you are getting into for your dollar.

 

[Budnicks]

FridayGT try www.AutaBuy.com & maybe www.HotRodHotLine.com both have some decent listings the second 1 is kind of limited on Mopar's, I have purchased a few from individuals off AutaBuy, I hate the E-Scam (E-Bay) site for complete cars,I will only buy just parts, never had very good luck with cars there, mostly a bunch of junk for the money & dishonest postings, you spend a bunch money to go & look at them then turn out to be old photos in the add, just outright lies on the sellers part or the deal like, "I'm selling it for a friend" & they know nothing about the cars history... Good luck you should be able to find something workable for $9K...

 

[FridayGt]

Have you considered attending an auction?
I know Barrett-Jackson gets all the glory. But Mecum, Russo & Steele, RM, Gooding, Silver, plus dozens of smaller outfits hold auctions several times a year at different venues around the country. Naturally the big ticket, high buck cars get the TV coverage, but they handle moderately priced vehicles too.
Hemmings often posts a handful of auction results, along with upcoming events.
Sounds like a fine way to spend a few vacation days to me.

I have thought about this, but having found any as of yet in the sprawling metropolis of Delaware. I'll see what I can locate up in PA, that's not too long of a haul. Thanks for the suggestion, I'm going to give this a little more thought than I have.

Another, very good, option is to seek out, and attend, as many car shows as you can. Many events are mfg-centric, so you can literally shop while you browse the shows. A lot of the cars you see there will be for sale.

Attend local car gatherings. Here in Raleigh, we have a car event almost every weekend during the summer. Many of those cars show up with For Sale signs on them, and I've seen some that were priced to sell.

Seek out some of the local car guys that mess with Mopars, and start to network with them. I've found that a lot of guys are "sitting on" prospective deals, simply because of bad timing, but they're usually willing to share prospects to help promote the hobby - and brand.

The more "imbedded" you are within the hobby, the less chance you have to be duped, as word of mouth and the Mopar network is a fairly close nit group of people. For example, if there's a car for sale anywhere in NC, I can almost guarantee you that, with a few phone calls, someone knows both the person and, often times, some history on the cars.

This has been my experience, and I wish you well with your plan.

Southenman

Thanks Southernman, I have been actively attending every car show and swap meet I can in the area, but sadly I don't tend to find too many MOPARS in this area with for sale signs. Went to one a few months back and saw two beautiful '67 GTX's right next to one another though. The show I went to two weeks ago had two runners right next to eachother, one was a BEAUTIFUL '70 in plum crazy with a pistol grip. I didn't bother to ask a price when he said the numbers matched, besides, he didn't have a sign up.

I saw that ebay listing with the 71 rr. That car was listed a few months ago, auction reached about $28k but the reserve was not met. It is an awesome, rare car worth a good money. When I saw it relisted, i looked in the description and saw the reserve of $9500 and screamed! I sent the seller an immediate message asking him to verify the price because it was crazy (I actually would have felt somewhat guilty getting it for that price) but never got a response. I had the previous listing saved from when it didnt meet the reserve, and I could see it was a scam, the new listing just stole 4 of the original listing pictures and copied some of the description word for word. Sad idiots like that are still living.

Pittsburgh has a very strong mopar presence, and I know a few guys who might have vehicles available that may interest you. I'm going to a big mopar show on Sunday and will see all of them there, let you know if I hear of anything. Good Luck!

I would appreciate that big time! Heck I'd bring a nice celebration cigar with me for you if something worked out!

Would you mind sending me the info for the show? I've been trying to find a car show to go to this weekend to keep hunting while the soon-to-be mother in-law is out and about with my Lady.

FridayGT try www.AutaBuy.com & maybe www.HotRodHotLine.com both have some decent listings the second 1 is kind of limited on Mopar's, I have purchased a few from individuals off AutaBuy, I hate the E-Scam (E-Bay) site for complete cars,I will only buy just parts, never had very good luck with cars there, mostly a bunch of junk for the money & dishonest postings, you spend a bunch money to go & look at them then turn out to be old photos in the add, just outright lies on the sellers part or the deal like, "I'm selling it for a friend" & they know nothing about the cars history... Good luck you should be able to find something workable for $9K...

Thanks Bud, more sites to look at is always a plus!

 

[dgraver]

The car show is "Mopars in the Park", located in Butler, PA (birthplace of the Jeep!) located just outside of Pittsburgh. All Mopar show, will be my first time attending but I heard nothing but good things about it. No idea if youd be willing to make the trip from Delaware, but if so send me a PM, ill be there bright an early, hopefully the rain holds off. Here's some info below, also listed on www.carcruises.com :

Mopars In The Park ____________________ Sunday, September 4, 2011

Sponsored by Butler Pentastars Car Club; this is Butler’s only all Mopar car show. Mopars from the tri-state area and beyond are coming to Alameda Park. Trophies, fun, food, vendors, D.J., and lots of Mopars are waiting for you in the upper level of Alameda Park. Open to the public from 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Come out and enjoy the fun! For more information contact Scott Snow at (724) 285-9484.

 

[J5 GTX]

No rust

I can see it now...

" Little Rust "


(.......surrounded by large expanse of open air.)

Been there, done that, have the T-shirt as well as the jacket.

Now that's funny right there. Sadly, it's true with some sellers.
Some of the "no rust" claims just crack me up.

FridayGt,
I think your budget is in line with today's market. Prices vary.
Every Saturday, for 2 hours, I study the MOPAR auctions on ebay. Have been doing this for about 4 years now. So I have a working knowledge of car value.
They are out there for the price/condition you are thinking about.
My opinion,
keep searching, take notes, print out ads and auctions for later comparison.
Like some other folks here on the forum have said, everybody with a Dodge or Plymouth made before 1994 thinks they have got a "gold mine" and the price of gold is going up every day, don't you know.
Here's one key thing to remember: Offers of free shipping are almost always a scam. Unless the guy owns his own trucking company, a seller taking the hit on shipping just doesn't make sense. (yes, there are a few exceptions---very few).
You sound like someone with a fair amount of common sense so, what I"m saying you probably already know.
Keep looking, don't be anxious for anything.

 

[WileE]

Never,ever buy a car sight unseen. Whether you go to see it, or pay somebody. Never rely on photos. "Written agreements" "guarantees" are not worth the toilet paper they're written on... after they have your money, & you have a piece of junk dropped in your driveway... try to find them to collect.

 

[dgraver]

http://youngstown.craigslist.org/cto/2576273397.html

Look in other cities where the collector car market might be better, I did a quick search and found that coronet above in Ohio, just an example.

 

[welder47]

Id just stay away from ebay for sure when buying a used car. Im sure that you would have to travel to get a car, probably not alot available near you. In wi here Ive seen quite a few of the years your looking for recently, did not pay alot of attention to them though. Your best bet might be to have a near by fbbo member go look at the car that interests you. Even if you had to give the guy a few bucks to check it out it would be worth it rather than buy sight unseen. Anyway thats probably what Id do, cant really go by what the seller has to say. Ive been down that road only to discover his idea of near mint is in my opinion very close to junk.