66 Hemi Plymouths

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

I saw both these cars within the last week at 2 different events. The first one, Belvedere, was at Carlisle, an original paint and interior with rebuilt no. matching motor/ trans, and the second one , Satellite, at Hershey an original no. matching with one repaint. Both in the same price range, but 2 different examples of similar cars. My question, for the same money which would you buy and why? Lets assume, for sake of discussion, the cars are numbers matching as advertised.

 

[yellowdartdave]

Well, they are only original paint once but in this case it would be a toss up to me.

 

[696pack]

Uhhh, we would need the price on the first on in order to advise you.

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

Its in shoe polish on the passenger side window , see pic,$49,500 OBO

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

Well, they are only original paint once but in this case it would be a toss up to me.

It may be "original paint", but its got a little too much "patina" for me, I would have to get it painted.

 

[696pack]

Seems like a silly question to me. One needs paint (5K minimum) the other is done and has buckets and a console. Of course the done car unless there is something you know that we don't

 

[black64]

If drivetrain on both are rebuilt and there were no rust issues, I would go with the satellite since it looks to be the better of the two.

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

Seems like a silly question to me. One needs paint (5K minimum) the other is done and has buckets and a console. Of course the done car unless there is something you know that we don't

Let me re-phrase it for you, since the Belv is all original, except rebuilt motor and trans ( big ticket item) and is not as desireable as the more equipped Satellite, bucket seat/console, with original ( not rebuilt) drivetrain and an older yet presentable paint job and clean original interior. I'm sure I would go with the Satellite, but others may not be so inclined. I posed the question to get a little discussion going. PS I figured you would might have an opinion, maybe based on production numbers, but sounds as if you would rather dismiss the question as silly.

 

[iraqivet01]

The first one would be a show head turner! Looks like grandma cars and then the look iunder the hood. It would be fun just watchIng people jaws drop.

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

The first one would be a show head turner! Looks like grandma cars and then the look iunder the hood. It would be fun just watchIng people jaws drop.

Yeah it caught my attention, that and the vintage cheater slicks.Pull off the Hemi emblems and hurt some feelings! The Satellite is pretty unasuming too, with the full wheel covers.

 

[wingcarenvy]

If the paint was real nice on the Satellite I would go with it. Although I love the patina'd look of the Bel. I figured its easier for me to go through the engine/trans than paint a car. Wow this is harder to write than I thought. The Bel is real hot so it would be almost 50/50 for me. I wish I had the dough to buy one so I could be pondering this for real.

 

[696pack]

Let me re-phrase it for you, since the Belv is all original, except rebuilt motor and trans ( big ticket item) and is not as desireable as the more equipped Satellite, bucket seat/console, with original ( not rebuilt) drivetrain and an older yet presentable paint job and clean original interior. I'm sure I would go with the Satellite, but others may not be so inclined. I posed the question to get a little discussion going. PS I figured you would might have an opinion, maybe based on production numbers, but sounds as if you would rather dismiss the question as silly.

For round figures of $50K for either car it would still be a no brainer for me with the Sat. unless the drivetrain is in bad shape.

It depends on what YOU want to do with the car. The Sat. is a MUCH better looking car to most people. Most people drive these cars so seldom the one with the original drive train will likely outlive you.

If you are looking for the sleeper look (and plan on doing some racing) you will have a lot more money in it than the Sat. with nice paint and interior work done. Can you paint? Has the engine been simply rebuilt to stock or was it blueprinted, cammed, distributor re-worked, headers, etc? If not, most stock Hemis are not all that impressive in the 1/4 mile. A GOOD rebuild that will make it run in the low 11s or high 10s and meet NHRA stock class will be at LEAST $10k.

If you want a REAL sleeper and one that will run and not embarass you in a good race you would be better off to by my car for $70K ready to go and save the time and work. On top of that, mine is a 1 of 11 models built AND factory 4 speed car that most will agree is about a $10K add over a like model Hemi auto car.

 

[Meep-Meep]

FYI, but the first one with worn paint was for sale on fleabay a few months ago (there can't be two identical looking 66 HEMI Bel II autos around!). It was in the So Cal area and I want to say it had a BIN at $26K or something but I can't remember exactly. I tried to find the old listing but didn't find that either.

Is this a trick question? For the same money I see no reason why I wouldn't stampede right for the Sat. Also, there is no such thing as numbers matching in 66 so all you can really verify is correct date and stamp pad info.

 

[696pack]

FYI, but the first one with worn paint was for sale on fleabay a few months ago (there can't be two identical looking 66 HEMI Bel II autos around!). It was in the So Cal area and I want to say it had a BIN at $26K or something but I can't remember exactly. I tried to find the old listing but didn't find that either.

Is this a trick question? For the same money I see no reason why I wouldn't stampede right for the Sat. Also, there is no such thing as numbers matching in 66 so all you can really verify is correct date and stamp pad info.

Weeeeel, that is arguable.

If Mopar would have continued to ID cars as they did prior to 1967 (and some 1968 cars) There would be no arguement about this. And to this I say that you have to look at "numbers matching" as two different camps. You really can't discount 68-back cars because they don't have the V.I.N. on the engine or trans compared to 69 up that DID have them. It is like comparing an LA built car to cars built in other plant that were far more likely to have had a broadcast sheet. Very few LA built cars had them due to plant policy. So, do you discount a car because it likely never had a BS in it vs. cars built in other plants that DID get them.

Back to the subject I began commenting on here. Original engine/trans for a 68 back car can be looked at as a glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty. If the car has an engine with the casting date prior to the cars SPD is it considered to be the original engine? Forget about the stamped numbers on the front pad for the assembly date because it just like the V.I.N. number on the 69 up cars can easily be milled off and restamped in an undetectable way. If you are BUYING a 68 back car you can TRY and dicker with the seller stating that there is no way to prove it is the original engine. The SELLER will argue that there is no way to prove it ISN'T the original engine.

 

[696pack]

If the paint was real nice on the Satellite I would go with it. Although I love the patina'd look of the Bel. I figured its easier for me to go through the engine/trans than paint a car. Wow this is harder to write than I thought. The Bel is real hot so it would be almost 50/50 for me. I wish I had the dough to buy one so I could be pondering this for real.

Yeah, but that will get old real quick when you are driving it or taking it to a show with a sign on it bragging and telling the audience that it is the original paint. People will walk away scratching their heads with a puzzled look on their faces saying to their buddy "why doesn't he just paint it and make it respectable looking?"

 

[69Coronetrt]

If you want a REAL sleeper and one that will run and not embarass you in a good race you would be better off to by my car for $70K ready to go and save the time and work. On top of that, mine is a 1 of 11 models built AND factory 4 speed car that most will agree is about a $10K add over a like model Hemi auto car.

I agree. I like the 66 Belvedere body better than the 66 Coronet but of the three cars, Daryl's would be a better buy due to rarity and the four speed.

Of the two in question...the Satellite.

 

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

both overpriced in this market but i like the 1st one for the desireability, both would need a paint job imo anyway. 2nd cars paint sucks.
i like belvederes better.

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

FYI, but the first one with worn paint was for sale on fleabay a few months ago (there can't be two identical looking 66 HEMI Bel II autos around!). It was in the So Cal area and I want to say it had a BIN at $26K or something but I can't remember exactly. I tried to find the old listing but didn't find that either.

Is this a trick question? For the same money I see no reason why I wouldn't stampede right for the Sat. Also, there is no such thing as numbers matching in 66 so all you can really verify is correct date and stamp pad info.

Maybe the Belv was bought off E Bay and the new owner is trying to flip it. Probably a better chance it was another scam. Honestly don't know as I didn't see either owner of the cars when I spotted them. Just thought it was unusual to see 2 cars of similar vintage, so vastly different in appearance, priced almost the same at 2 different events within a week. I am not in the market to purchase either, just thought it would be a fair topic of discussion, to get others opinions based on their knowledge of these cars. I wouldn't buy a car I couldn't drive regularly, and if I had funds available to play with a hemi car, I wouldn't risk a date code correct motor or no. matching motor at the strip. Keep the original stock engine stored and build up a crate motor. I do consider myself fortunate to have a couple toys, although they are not investment grade cars, to enjoy without having to take a second mortgage or worry about their value going south. If I got lucky and hit the jackpot, I would pick the Satty and drive it locally, as it is.

 

[theman440]

" The first one, Belvedere, was at Carlisle, an original paint and interior" Hmmm...how can it have an original interior when it has Coronet door panels and front seat? I'll take the Satellite.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Weeeeel, that is arguable.

If Mopar would have continued to ID cars as they did prior to 1967 (and some 1968 cars) There would be no arguement about this. And to this I say that you have to look at "numbers matching" as two different camps. You really can't discount 68-back cars because they don't have the V.I.N. on the engine or trans compared to 69 up that DID have them. It is like comparing an LA built car to cars built in other plant that were far more likely to have had a broadcast sheet. Very few LA built cars had them due to plant policy. So, do you discount a car because it likely never had a BS in it vs. cars built in other plants that DID get them.

Back to the subject I began commenting on here. Original engine/trans for a 68 back car can be looked at as a glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty. If the car has an engine with the casting date prior to the cars SPD is it considered to be the original engine? Forget about the stamped numbers on the front pad for the assembly date because it just like the V.I.N. number on the 69 up cars can easily be milled off and restamped in an undetectable way. If you are BUYING a 68 back car you can TRY and dicker with the seller stating that there is no way to prove it is the original engine. The SELLER will argue that there is no way to prove it ISN'T the original engine.

My point exactly.

I know these early HEMI cars are on the low end of the totem pole price wise and I wonder if part of that has to do with it being relatively easy in making a car "correct" by just getting a date correct engine. By the way I still find it amazing that almost every factory perf car that runs through the auction is "numbers matching".