318 to 360 Swap 74 Satellite

[rustycopcar]

Howdy All

Im new to the site, but this looks like the bunch i need to listen too. I aquired a 74 plymouth satellite. It has a 318 with a carter 2681 2brl and a mild cam. The transmission id reads 4A267983(if this helps) I found a 360 from a 74 dodge pickup with a 4 brl i think thermoquad(not positive) If its a good motor will it fit? Are the mounts the same as well as the bolt pattern? Thank you.

 

[racedodge]

I believe (not really a small block guy mind you) that the 360 motor mounts are different than the 318 motor mounts, hopefully someone will chime in that is smarter than I in that regard... now the 360 oil pan will NOT fit as it is a rear sump and it will interfere with your drag link, so you will need to get a 360 oil pan for a b body, ALSO, the truck exhaust manifolds are center dumps and the cars are rear dump manifolds, so you will need to either use the 318 manifolds or put on headers....other than that, its a drop in replacement.

NOW.. that is said, you will need to get your converter weighted as the 360 is an externally balanced engine and the 318 is internally balanced (that is if you plan on using the same transmission).

 

[rustycopcar]

will my 318 exhaust manifolds fit onto a 360? And i guess im looking for an oilpan now too. Anyone Know what type of torq conv. i will need to get for the existing trans in the car. The trans on there currently was rebuilt not too long ago and shifts like a dream.

 

[racedodge]

you can use that same converter, you will just have to get the external weights (that a 360 converter requires) welded onto that converter. mancini racing sells those weights on their online store. yes your manifolds are a direct fit.

 

[moparmarks]

If the truck has a 727 you can use that.
318 maniflods will fits but have smaller ports.
Truck mounts won't work. The 318 mounts will but have to use some shimms on the drivers side.
Also 360 cars pans are different and a little harder to find than the 318 pan. I might have one.

 

[moparmarks]

Also need a sb 4-bbl trottle cable.
Kickdown linkage mated for your carb/tranny combo. 2bbl different than 4bbl. 904 different than 727

 

[rustycopcar]

would the kickdown from the truck work if its a 727trans im looking at getting this motor this saturday and im looking at what other parts i need to order.
Does the oil sump from the 318 fit into the 360 for the b body type pan i need to order or should i be looking for a specific oil sump.
So far i have the engine master kit, the carb rebuild kit, oil pan for b body and possiblie a different sump, torq converter or tq weights, kickdown linkage, looking at compcam kit, msd ignition.
that leads me to my next queston. as far as electronic connections will the ones in my satellite from the 318 work on the 360?

 

[racedodge]

would the kickdown from the truck work if its a 727trans im looking at getting this motor this saturday and im looking at what other parts i need to order.

yes it will

Does the oil sump from the 318 fit into the 360 for the b body type pan i need to order or should i be looking for a specific oil sump.

When you order the pan, ask for a oil pickup that fits that application

So far i have the engine master kit, the carb rebuild kit, oil pan for b body and possiblie a different sump, torq converter or tq weights, kickdown linkage, looking at compcam kit, msd ignition.
that leads me to my next queston. as far as electronic connections will the ones in my satellite from the 318 work on the 360?

yes on your last question.

 

[rustycopcar]

well this is sad but i have learned about 360's a bit. the engine i was going to get is a no go. but i found a 440 and transmission from an old motorhome. Who wants to take a stab at what i would need to get that done?

 

[racedodge]

see here: http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=27263

except that you will need either a big block k frame or a schumacher swap kit to mount your engine instead due to the 74 having spool type motor mounts.

 

[rustycopcar]

I have heard that schumacher swap kits make it almost impossible to use any other headers then their own. I tried to get ahold of QA1 but they were closed already but they have Production K members for mopar A B or E bodys to make the swap much easier. I Also heard that i could just weld up a plate of 1/4 inch steel to adjust the mount.

 

[racedodge]

I have heard that schumacher swap kits make it almost impossible to use any other headers then their own. I tried to get ahold of QA1 but they were closed already but they have Production K members for mopar A B or E bodys to make the swap much easier. I Also heard that i could just weld up a plate of 1/4 inch steel to adjust the mount.

the A,B, and E body k frames use 72 and earlier style motor mounts. Your 74 k frame will not accept this style due to OE mounting designs. I have a friend with a 74 charger that used a schumacher kit and used summit headers, so there are options out there.. you could just run HP style manifolds and not worry about clearance issues at all. Remember that your 74 uses spool type motor mounts, totally different than 72 and below.

 

[rustycopcar]

i should have my 440 at the beginning of next week. as for the mounting if i can get schumacher kit and summit headers ill be good. I just thought of another thing. Since 440 was an option there shouldnt be an issue with the radiator right? i havent seen anyone talk about it being an issue on the sat.

 

[racedodge]

i should have my 440 at the beginning of next week. as for the mounting if i can get schumacher kit and summit headers ill be good. I just thought of another thing. Since 440 was an option there shouldnt be an issue with the radiator right? i havent seen anyone talk about it being an issue on the sat.

well, yes and no... your current radiator will be a tad small to efficiently cool the 440 so you will most likely need to go larger, i would test that one first before switching to a larger one... secondly, what is the 440 out of? if it was in a 72 and below vehicle, the water pump housing is the wrong piece you will need a 73 and up water pump housing where the inlet is on the passenger side.

 

[rustycopcar]

the guy at the salvage yard said its a mid 70's engine out of motorhome. ill let you know tomorrow after i get more details from him. they are really busy with christmas coming up. Im just glad i found a 440. I want to do it right the first time. So heres my list of parts.
COMP Cams K21-223-4 - COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
Edelbrock performer 1411 750cfm 4brl carb
Eddy 7193 performer rpm intake
K&N Air Filter
Milodon 18325 pickup
Milodon 30930 milodon street and strip 7qt oil pan
Summit Racing Headers G9041 Should fit
Edlebrock 1280 Pro-Flo series air cleaner
Edlebrock 4491 signature series valve covers
Still need to take it apart to see what master kit i need for it. hoses, fuel and oil filters.
And Schumacher Swap mounts are on the way. and a partridge in a pear tree....
what should i do for the dif. 3.91 or 4.10? or can i leave it since it works with the 727?

 

[racedodge]

the guy at the salvage yard said its a mid 70's engine out of motorhome. ill let you know tomorrow after i get more details from him. they are really busy with christmas coming up. Im just glad i found a 440. I want to do it right the first time. So heres my list of parts.
COMP Cams K21-223-4 - COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
Edelbrock performer 1411 750cfm 4brl carb
Eddy 7193 performer rpm intake
K&N Air Filter
Milodon 18325 pickup
Milodon 30930 milodon street and strip 7qt oil pan
Summit Racing Headers G9041 Should fit
Edlebrock 1280 Pro-Flo series air cleaner
Edlebrock 4491 signature series valve covers
Still need to take it apart to see what master kit i need for it. hoses, fuel and oil filters.
And Schumacher Swap mounts are on the way. and a partridge in a pear tree....
what should i do for the dif. 3.91 or 4.10? or can i leave it since it works with the 727?

all of that stuff is fine, but the biggest issue you are going to have is the low compression of the motor you are getting. in most cases, they averaged around 8.2 to 1. with that cam, you will get a lot of lope, but not much go due to your current compression ratio. I do not know what your budget is, but I would not spend all that money on all of that stuff and throw it onto a motor of unknown origin or history. If something happens, you will become frustrated and would have hoped you just did it right the first time. I would not go with 3.91's or 4.10's if you plan on driving it a lot on the street/highway, but instead find a good set of 3.23's or 3.55's. That oil pan is unnecessary IMO, I would just put a stock one on with a stock oil pump. Now if you are going to go the HP rebuild route, then upgrading to that style of pan and a HV oil pump would be a standard upgrade.

LASTLY, if you plan on doing your engine first, I would strongly recommend you did not. I would do your bodywork first then do your engine/trans last. If you do not care what it looks like and just want a primered beast, then that is cool too, but if you DO care what it looks like, focus on the body, get it done right, then do the engine/trans and make a driver you can be proud of.

 

[moparmarks]

Racedodge has some good advise. I would also try and run a compression and leak down test on it. While the pan is off maybe pull a couple caps and have a looksee. No use throwing a bunch of money into a motor that might blow in a short while.
Heres my 440 in my 72 SSP beater. Drove it home from the crusher in a 75 D200. Ran pretty good. Come to find it had a pretty fresh rebuild. Threw in a Comp 454 lift cam kit. New seals and all the car stuff. I don't have 300 bucks in this motor but I also do have lots of Mopar crap laying around. Whole car is spare parts. Runs great, no smoke.

Note. Try and grab the speedo gear from the motorhome tranny. They usually have the hard to find 40-43 tooth needed for 391-410 gears

 

[rustycopcar]

so heres the rusty cop car. the story behind it is that it wasnt a production cop car. a police station in maryland bought it from the factory and had it painted. the lights were removed and the siren and it was sold to my friends friend then. then he bought it. then i bought it. I agree with you both. I dont want to spend 200 on a pan so im trying to find out what will fit. i was thinking of doing msd ignition when said and done because i really hate how they used a ballast resistor on these cars. i have 2 spares in my glove box. This car is my winter car as sad as that is to say, but 500lbs of kitty litter, snowtires, and icemelt makes the winter here in minnesnowta not seem so cold. body work is the spendy part. i plan on doing the prepwork and welding on all new fenders getting a new rear bumper and rockerpannels eventually. for now it stays as it is. the ladies love it and the wife gets jealous.:argue: My friends in the lawenforcement program at school wish they could use it for the test and i just enjoy driving it.
Once i get the 440 i will have the machine shop checkout everything and clean it up. They are the best at what they do im told by all the mechanics in town with that in mind.

What should i do about the compression ratio? machine specs are really helpful i need them anyway to order the rebuild kit i have the option of boring it out and having a zero deck with flat top pistons but i really need to know numbers.
My best friend is my help on this build is a very skilled mechanic and will guide me along the way so thats a +.

Its funny i went from imports to true american. it feels good because theres no replacement for displacement.
one last thing. Does anyone make a disk break kit for the rear on these cars?

 

[racedodge]

What should i do about the compression ratio? machine specs are really helpful i need them anyway to order the rebuild kit i have the option of boring it out and having a zero deck with flat top pistons but i really need to know numbers.

there are only two true things you can do to up your compression ratio:

1 - put on closed chambered heads (this will only bump you about .4-.5 to about a 8.7 to 1 ratio, better, but still not the most desirable)

2 - replace the pistons with a higher compression piston

oh wait.. there is a third, do both of the above!

the numbers you seek can be found on a piston manufacturers specifications card in regards to overall compression in relation to chamber size (you can view summit, mancini, jegs, etc. and they have information on each piston on their websites). Now, with that being said, if you plan on rebuilding the engine, you have to consider your other components.

I am currently going through this right now, I plan on building a engine for my 71 charger. I sat down and determined what I wanted in regards to horsepower and drivability, so my next step is to sit down with my machinist and create a list of parts and a plan to get me to my goal. I recommend you do the same. Never go blindly into a engine overhaul/rebuild, but instead create a plan, a budget, and do not get glossy eyed when it comes to "parts" as I have found that many people buy what they want instead of what they need and end up spending twice as much as they should have.

one last thing. Does anyone make a disk break kit for the rear on these cars?

yes, www.p-s-t.com

 

[rog_allen]

well, yes and no... Your current radiator will be a tad small to efficiently cool the 440 so you will most likely need to go larger, i would test that one first before switching to a larger one... Secondly, what is the 440 out of? If it was in a 72 and below vehicle, the water pump housing is the wrong piece you will need a 73 and up water pump housing where the inlet is on the passenger side.

why does the inlet have to be on the passenger side ??? Im in the middle off the 318 to 440 swap now and just switched it to the drivers side so it will match my aluminum radiator..is there some issues im not for seeing ?? Thanks