E 3 Plugs

[mrkinger]

Has anyone tryed these plugs,are they just more Snake Oil

 

[67 B-body]

I will say SNAKE OIL!
Think about how electricity works,,, it will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance... It's just a fact...... Now then, how many "sparks" do you think you'll have at any given time across the wire to center electrode of that plug????? You guessed it,,, JUST ONE...
Now ask yourself,,, "What the hell are all of these extra wires doing hanging out here if only one is carrying any current at any given time?" Well, now your asking the same thing I ask,,,, "WHY?"!
My advice, is to find a plug that YOU feel comfortable running because they just plane Ol' work! Sometimes we make a choice because a certain brand might not foul out as soon,,, or maybe brand X has proven to have poor quality control,,, or maybe someone told you some story of how that damn plug fouled out it less than 30 seconds of run time and brand Y has been in that same engine for 100 years! Who knows what brand is better than the other? Not me!! I can tell you the principals of electronics and how electricity reacts in just about any situation though.... I design electrical circuits and controls, layout electrical schematics with AutoCad and they are sent off to production to be built for the end user... I do more than that, but I hope you get the point... I'm pretty good with electricity and controls.... I guess I could have just said I'm an Electrical Engineer by profession... LOL! Would have been much faster!
Anyhow, you have my 2 cents...

 

[mrkinger]

Thanks for the info 67.i know Chrysler products always ran better on Champion back in the day,but i find the quality in them just isnt there any more.I guess im just looking for a better plug.

 

[old tired rebel]

Try NGK

 

[67440chrg]

I tried them. I wasnt impressed I put champions back in.

 

[Budnicks]

E-3's, I'm not saying it's true or not, I don't know, probably Snake-Oil, but they claim, on an independent blind study, testing several different brands, they have a quicker, larger, more complete combustion chamber filling spark on any given ignition system/combustion chamber shape, for a fractionally longer more complete burn, they also claim they make a few more HP on any given engine, grant you "if it does work, it's fractionally"... I saw a show Stacey Davids Gears I think it was, I don't remember the name of the company doing the testing, that was showing them {the E-3's} & they were obviously better than the other two brands plugs they were testing at the same time on a side by side comparison, time laps video, spark volume, fuel burn/energy, heat dissipation {very important in a spark plug} & voltage, readings... Snake oil crap just like, the same thing said about, Split-fires, but they worked very well in my 350cc 2 stroke Banshee Quad, never tried them in anything other than the Quad, but I had far less fouling issues, from idling around or low RPM trail riding, than any equal heat range & extended/projected tip Autolites, Champion, NGK, or even the Platinum Series Electrodes in any of the mentioned brands, plugs lasted "far longer" with out any fouling issues, not very scientific, but effective test... But I'm still not convinced either way, 100%, until I can compare them on a dyno & see it for myself...

 

[Ron 73]

Has anyone tryed these plugs,are they just more Snake Oil

Personally talking to guys about this, i got the basic, "If you have a set thats not been giving you any problems, stay with them" I seen a show on a couple of these different ones claiming to be better, im not impressed enough to change from Autolites, i use them in my 73 and out of all ive tried they seem to work best and longest in the 318, for me anyway.

 

[67 B-body]

E-3's, I'm not saying it's true or not, I don't know, probably Snake-Oil, but they claim, on an independent blind study, testing several different brands, they have a quicker, larger, more complete combustion chamber filling spark on any given ignition system/combustion chamber shape, for a fractionally longer more complete burn, they also claim they make a few more HP on any given engine, grant you "if it does work, it's fractionally"... I saw a show Stacey Davids Gears I think it was, I don't remember the name of the company doing the testing, that was showing them {the E-3's} & they were obviously better than the other two brands plugs they were testing at the same time on a side by side comparison, time laps video, spark volume, fuel burn/energy, heat dissipation {very important in a spark plug} & voltage, readings... Snake oil crap just like, the same thing said about, Split-fires, but they worked very well in my 350cc 2 stroke Banshee Quad, never tried them in anything other than the Quad, but I had far less fouling issues, from idling around or low RPM trail riding, than any equal heat range & extended/projected tip Autolites, Champion, NGK, or even the Platinum Series Electrodes in any of the mentioned brands, plugs lasted "far longer" with out any fouling issues... But I'm still not convinced either way, 100%, until I can compare them on a dyno & see it for myself...

My Father retired from Autolite,,, They manufactured Split Fire plugs in Fostoria Ohio at the Autolite plant (along with several other brand name and store named plugs like Champion, A/C Delco, Sears, etc.).... From what I remember Dad telling me, one of the engineers working at that facility came up with the idea to test it, and it was never manufactured under the Autolite name "I believe testing showed no improvements" and later sold the idea.
I guess you never really know for sure what your getting.....
Plug gap can and does change the "Heat" of any given plug, and can be seen on the scope when an engine is running. In College we learned about GM in the 70's going to the HEI ign and also playing around with plug gaps to create an EPA freindly engine. If you look back in the spark plug data for GM they started getting gaps up to .060",,,, and I think even greater! They needed that big spark to ignite the lean fuel mixture, and also to generate a more complete ign. This is were that HEI (high energy ignition) coil comes into play... I don't have the memory I once had, but seems to me I used to see 45kv to 50 KV on the scope when reading the HEI plug leads. I think the standard non- HEI coils produced 35KV with a .035" gap plug or somewhere around that amount.... 10,000 to 15,000 volts differance....
I wonder if the tests were performed with a coil that can take advantage of larger gaps, and I also wonder what the gaps were all set at? were they equal, and how were the E-3's measured?
About the only advantage I can see is that with more ground wires attached to the shell (and they would all have to be pretty darn close to exactly the same gap), would be the reduction of metal transfer on any individual wire because you have three times the available area to deposit the tranfered metal through repeated spark.
Hears another "Possible" and I mean very unlikely gain "at least from my point of view", is that the optional ground lead that the spark jumps to MIGHT be in the correct index to prevent shrouding of the arc....
I remember trying to find that extra horsepower by indexing the spark plugs so the wire was "theoretically" on the opposite side of the swirl of the air fuel mixture during ignition..... I cant say I ever seen any gains from doing this though... I never realy hear about it anymore either....
Anyhow to Budnicks point,,,, "they" did test them and said they were better... But I believe... "liars figure, and figures lie!" Not all the time,,, but often enough that I have to rely on good Ol' common sense and my education to come to my own truth about these come and go products...:happy7:

 

[67 B-body]

Oh BTW,,,
I have Autolites in my engine...

 

[Budnicks]

Thanks 67 B-Body, I know we have had this discussion before, I think in the Racers Hang Out section, it's good to have your input, especially as an electronic engineer... I think you could have a point about the indexing, on the extra electrodes possibly making a more "true more complete spark" or better chance of it any way... On our Mountain, Alky/Blown or N20 Engines, with large dome high compression pistons, we always indexed the plugs, but mostly for interference clearances, not spark quality... One mans junk, is another mans treasure sometimes, it seems, snake oil, or not... I can relate with the memory issues too, I wish I could remember more, I often end up going back & editing my posts, because I remember something, I didn't while posting them, I know I've forgot allot over the many years, it usually come to me while laying in bed or something, much latter... LOL...

 

[RustyRatRod]

I ran them in an 08 Jeep Wrangler for a while. They set P03XX codes all day long. Misfire codes. Put the stock Champions back in and all was well.

 

[67 B-body]

Yah,, I've given my two cents more than once regarding ignition systems and spark plugs.
I believe some aviation plugs use a "ring" for a ground wire that provides a 360deg option for a spark to jump to.... However,,, this is "as I've been to understand" done for a safety / reliability factor. By having that configuration you reduce the failure of a single wire ground attahed by a single spot weld... Aslo in the attachements, they use Multi ground wires for redundancy "safety" once again.

This is an exerpt from another web site:
"Average price is $25 a piece for massive electrode aviation spark plugs (but some can be upwards of $40 ea), so about $1400 for a new set of plugs.

In reality however, aviation plugs are typically not changed until they are wore out. When fouled with lead/carbon, they are sandblasted then the gaps are reset. In time, as the center electrode and side electrodes erode away, a go/no go gauge that one slips over the gapped plug after servicing determines whether the plug needs to be tossed out."

 

[Budnicks]

I've had good luck with NGK & Autolite, use to use Champions years ago, before all the stuff went to overseas mfg., but seemed to not burn off electrodes on the NGK's as easily, Kind of pretty Important in a Blown Alky or N20 apps., I Ran the Autolites on none-Blown/N20 & Large CI Mountain Motor/Engine applications, with relatively good success, just personal prefferances though...

 

[mrkinger]

Another bad Champion plug in my Plymouth ,2 bad ones in my wifes MGB,so that makes it 3 this month,are they makeing these plugs in China now.Thanks for everyones input,i think i will try autolite

 

[Ron 73]

I gave up on Champions a long time ago, i have had nothing but problems with them. Maybe something im doing wrong but i don't have any problems with the ones i use now.

 

[mrkinger]

What are you useing now Ron

 

[kb67mopar]

I typically only use any of two brands, NGK or E3.

NGK is a great plug, good quality, long lasting, still reasonably priced.

I have used E3's in several vehicles, some with no change others with a big change. My Dakota did not seem to have a change with the exception of a slightly smoother idle. When I put them in our Mazda 3 we had it completely cured my load pinging (detonation) problem. Though I can't say I saw a mileage benefit or power increase.

My $0.02, for the money buy NGK's but don't shy away from the E3 plugs, they work well but are a tad more pricey.

I stay away from Champion and Autolite. If you can get them at Walmart its made in China. NGK is made in Japan but I have used them for years and they are quality built.

 

[mrkinger]

I really wish i could buy a descent plug that was made in North America.

 

[Ron 73]

What are you useing now Ron

Autolites, Ive tried several and keep going back to these...

 

[71Beeper]

I've had good luck running the Splitfire plug. There is a difference in the "seat of the pants" feeling when accelerating from a dead stop. I've also tried the Halo Plug http://www.lsgbrisk.com/