looking for power out of a 440 - better options than a edelbrock top end kit?

[carsonp]

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=COeiztPwx7sCFTDhQgodFl0AmQ

$2250 for 482hp minus the carb. What else could be done for similer cost to get more results? I believe ive read a more aggresive cam should help quite a bit here.

Also, are the heads any good for a future stroker with some CNC work?

 

[HT413]

I don't know, seems like that cam doesn't even take advantage of those heads at all.

 

[IQ52]

More power comes with other tradeoffs, what are you going to do with this 440? Get groceries, go race, fuel economy, impress the neighbors? Vacuum assisted power brakes?

The heads will work on a stroker as is, depending upon what you want from the stroker. We've ported the RPM heads and gotten 787 HP with a 451 stroker on 91 octane pump gas. If the plan is for a stroker in that power range, I would start with a different head.

 

[67 B-body]

More power comes with other tradeoffs, what are you going to do with this 440? Get groceries, go race, fuel economy, impress the neighbors? Vacuum assisted power brakes?

The heads will work on a stroker as is, depending upon what you want from the stroker. We've ported the RPM heads and gotten 787 HP with a 451 stroker on 91 octane pump gas. If the plan is for a stroker in that power range, I would start with a different head.

I keep saying it,,,, The Victor series heads work Really good...... Even on the street!!!!! BREATH IN BREATH OUT.......... MAKES POWER

 

[Cranky]

Yes, those heads do work good but what do you have to build on? What pistons etc? If the pistons won't produce at least 10-1 static compression, I really don't want to fool with aluminum heads. I mean they will work fine with 9-1 but the will work much better with 10-1....and the beat goes on....

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

Took the words right out of my mouth, Cranky. To me, the heads are okay, but, I'd use a different cam and intake. Kick the compression to at least 10:1, and build the lower end.

 

[Cranky]

I've never been a big fan of 'kits' because they are usually too restrictive unless they give you the option of picking the parts that you want within certain parameters of course or have several kits available with different levels of performance....and when it comes to cams, I like to go with a custom grind when I'm going for horse power in the higher ranges.

 

[carsonp]

I am aiming for a streetable (not daily driven) 91/93 oct car that I would like to see a road course a few times a year if the anchor on the nose isnt unbearable

dont care about fuel economy really, id like a mean soundng cam, id like to NOT have to rebuild it after a day at the track (an annual once-over is fine), and something with manners that id have to warn folks about that arnt used to it would be fine

 

[dvw]

More cam and compression would perk it up. Cam will help if it has the compression to go with it.That being said. We built a similar combo. Cam was a .484 purple shaft, 600 Eddy carb, late model STOCK 440 short block with pistons at least .125" in the hole. 65 Belvedere, stock 11" converter, 3.91, 255/60 radials (non drag). 12.90@110 on 86 octane.
Doug

 

[carsonp]

i suppose new pistons arnt out of the question either really. They arnt that expensive and once the motor is apart anyway whats the big deal?

Am i correct in saying you dont want to go much higher that 10:1 on these old motors? If i have the forged crank (not sure yet), are rods recommended or are they pretty sturdy?

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

Stock rods will run easily to 6. I had a 383 turning 6800, stock rods and crank, worked wonderfully until I missed a shift...static compression generally run 10.5:1 or less on a street car, but that also varies on the build and the induction. The right cam, good head work, proper cam timing, etc come into play.
As for whether these engines like compression, anyone that built them for racing years ago ran things like Venolia (Venetian, v-something, Damn brainfade) pistons that were domed.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

For that kind of money why not get the six pack set up? Same cost with manifolds and carbs, and everything else you have is stock then you have closer to original set up and a lot more power.

 

[67 B-body]

I wouldn't get the "KIT" from them.....
I can point at my combo, and tell you that it DOES run on 93 octane... It loves AVGAS too.... The only thing with 93 octane is a little run-on if the idle is set high.... If it's idling fast, I'll just flip the ignition off in gear, and it doesn't have run-on..... With AVGAS, it doesn't run on at all!
I'm probably at the extreme end of things regarding compression and streetability, but it does cruise around VERY nicely for me.... No loading up, no stalling, etc... The only trouble I have from time to time is self induced,,,,, the tires spin like HELL!!!! LOL!!!
Here's a brief description / write-up on my car from Summit Racing and Hot Rod website.... http://www.onallcylinders.com/2013/03/04/real-world-powerplants-jim-hoovers-1967-plymouth-satellite/

 

[carsonp]

For that kind of money why not get the six pack set up? Same cost with manifolds and carbs, and everything else you have is stock then you have closer to original set up and a lot more power.

Not sure. I think I've read the six pack limits rpm? I think I'd rather have a higher revving motor for road courses

 

[Cranky]

You know you're going to be handicapped right off the bat because of the weight of the 440. Yeah, you can get rid of a lot of it with the aluminum heads, water pump and WP housing but that's about it unless you want to spring for the high dollar alloy block too but a 360 weighs in just a tad more than a 318 and 450 hp isn't hard to achieve. Even the cast crank is lighter than the forge pieces and the stock casting is plenty strong and if you want it lighter yet, throw on alloy heads.

 

[carsonp]

You know you're going to be handicapped right off the bat because of the weight of the 440. Yeah, you can get rid of a lot of it with the aluminum heads, water pump and WP housing but that's about it unless you want to spring for the high dollar alloy block too but a 360 weighs in just a tad more than a 318 and 450 hp isn't hard to achieve. Even the cast crank is lighter than the forge pieces and the stock casting is plenty strong and if you want it lighter yet, throw on alloy heads.

definitly not ideal but i will lighten it where i can and its just for track days, not competition of any sort. Alum heads and manifold, tubular K member, fiber glass fenders/hood/etc.

There are some options I like the idea of having a big block to terrorize the streets and take it to the track every now and again. Ive got an old toyota supra for track car as well so im used to having a giant anchor on top of the front wheels

 

[IQ52]

If your not in a big hurry and can wait a bit for some definitive answers, we are getting ready to dyno a 440. It will be running about 9.1:1 compression, a Comp XE285HL cam and factory 346 heads with stock 2.08/1.74 valves. For the first test the heads are flowing:

.100".........88/59
.200".......164/114
.300".......210/158
.400".......239/194
.500".......259/211
.600".......270/224
.700".......280/234

We'll be lifting the valve .574" with the 1.6:1 rockers. Several intakes are scheduled, Edelbrock RPM Performer, Holley Street Dominator, M1 Single plane and I think we have an old TM7 with other manifolds lurking about.

 

[Redhorse719]

If your not in a big hurry and can wait a bit for some definitive answers, we are getting ready to dyno a 440. It will be running about 9.1:1 compression, a Comp XE285HL cam and factory 346 heads with stock 2.08/1.74 valves. For the first test the heads are flowing:

.100".........88/59
.200".......164/114
.300".......210/158
.400".......239/194
.500".......259/211
.600".......270/224
.700".......280/234

We'll be lifting the valve .574" with the 1.6:1 rockers. Several intakes are scheduled, Edelbrock RPM Performer, Holley Street Dominator, M1 Single plane and I think we have an old TM7 with other manifolds lurking about.

:happy1:

 

[carsonp]

No hurry on my end. I'd like to see the results

 

[67 B-body]

If your not in a big hurry and can wait a bit for some definitive answers, we are getting ready to dyno a 440. It will be running about 9.1:1 compression, a Comp XE285HL cam and factory 346 heads with stock 2.08/1.74 valves. For the first test the heads are flowing:

.100".........88/59
.200".......164/114
.300".......210/158
.400".......239/194
.500".......259/211
.600".......270/224
.700".......280/234

We'll be lifting the valve .574" with the 1.6:1 rockers. Several intakes are scheduled, Edelbrock RPM Performer, Holley Street Dominator, M1 Single plane and I think we have an old TM7 with other manifolds lurking about.

I know you've touched on this in other threads, but I can't remember..... Were you going to throw a set of big aluminum heads on it in the end?
I would love to see this mythical "HAVE to have high compression to run aluminum heads" either proven, or disproved....
My bet is that a set of BIG Victors or Indy EZ will run and produce better numbers with the same 9.1:1 compression / M1 intake combo...