Why would anyone do this?

[Jnelson]

I am in process of putting in floor panels and have discovered that whoever put the 4 speed in my 65 Belvedere was a butcher. I already know that I have to get a real manual trans cross member and mount. When I get that will the transmission sit lower so that the shifter won't hit the frame part that is in the car. Everything is pushed up pretty high and the guy just cut away at the cross part that goes from rocker to rocker.


And the cross member that he fabricated is effed up too.



So I guess my question is: Will the right cross member and trans mount lower everything enough so that I can repair the chopped out part that he took out to clearance the shifter? Is this the right shifter for this? Or should I just say the heck with it and get an automatic for it? Do I need a different 4 speed?

 

[snakeyes]

:eusa_think::crybaby2::icon_eyes::eusa_doh::confused3::sFun_doh2:

 

[Bull1tt]

You need to figure a few things out first. I would look at what k-member is in the car, if a later style the engine and trans are back an inch and a half. look at where yor z-bar is located and how it's mounted. Do you know what year transmission you have?

 

[kiwigtx]

Wow!! Cutting that hole with a blow-torch is fairly agricultural to say the least :angry1: Some guys have no finesse.

Hopefully some of the guys with older B's can help with parts you need. It might be an idea to post a few more pics, and some details about what else was done to your car - it may help in getting the best info for you.

 

[dvw]

That motor is back. The manual cross member and the automatic cross members are the same. Is it mounted with stock mounts? If so it's got a 66-70 K-frame. Buy an aftermarket trans hump ( Passon, Brewer) trim the floor and the torsion bar cross member, then box it. Reinstall the stock transmission cross member and fab a rear trans mount. The motor being rearward opens up better header choices and adds valuable fan to radiator clearance. Right idea, lousy execution.
Doug

 

[Jnelson]

It originally came with a 318 and column mount shifter. How can I tell if the K frame is newer (66-70)? I looked this morning and it looks like there was some custom fabrication with a hot wrench by the left motor mount. Could a big block have been put in with a small block K frame?

 

[dvw]

It originally came with a 318 and column mount shifter. How can I tell if the K frame is newer (66-70)? I looked this morning and it looks like there was some custom fabrication with a hot wrench by the left motor mount. Could a big block have been put in with a small block K frame?

SB & BB are the same K-frame. Engine brackets are different. The standard K frame will leave only enough room for a cooling fan and no clutch, very close to radiator. Maybe they fabbed up a 6 cylinder K-frame with mounts? A 440 will bolt right on a stock 318 K-frame with the correct engine brackets.
Doug

 

[Jnelson]

Engine brackets? Are you talking about where the motor mount attaches to the K frame. Or are they just different motor mounts?
The engine does have a clutch fan with about 1 1/2" to spare. So if I get the correct brackets or motor mounts i will have to lose the clutch fan, correct?

 

[moparsteve636]

Post some pics. of the mounts! Sounds like some one really cobbled that together! Possible the mount brackets were reversed on the engine! If not you've probably have a 66 or later cross member!

 

[69Coronetrt]

"Why would anyone do this?"

"Because it's my car and I'll do whatever I want with it. To hell with what any one else thinks about it."
"Because I'm never going to sell the car. I'm the only one that will ever have to know or deal with what I do."
"I wasn't willing to do what was necessary to get what I really wanted so I made something else what I wanted."
"I cloned it."
"I couldn't afford to do it right."

Or any one of the many reasons or rationales you read every day on this and other boards.

 

[Jnelson]

"Why would anyone do this?"

"Because it's my car and I'll do whatever I want with it. To hell with what any one else thinks about it."
"Because I'm never going to sell the car. I'm the only one that will ever have to know or deal with what I do."
"I wasn't willing to do what was necessary to get what I really wanted so I made something else what I wanted."
"I cloned it."
"I couldn't afford to do it right."

Or any one of the many reasons or rationales you read every day on this and other boards.

Yep. I kinda figured that out. Just pisses me off. If he couldn't do it the right way he should of just sold what he had. I am going to make sure that I can get it so that it is structurally and mechanically sound.

- - - Updated - - -

Post some pics. of the mounts! Sounds like some one really cobbled that together! Possible the mount brackets were reversed on the engine! If not you've probably have a 66 or later cross member!

I'll post pictures later.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[ga66mopar]

That's pretty common. I had a few cars that looked someone used a hatchet to enlarge the shifter hole with.

 

[dvw]

Engine brackets? Are you talking about where the motor mount attaches to the K frame. Or are they just different motor mounts?
The engine does have a clutch fan with about 1 1/2" to spare. So if I get the correct brackets or motor mounts i will have to lose the clutch fan, correct?

With a little work this can be made right quite easily. What are your plans for the car? As stated the 62-65 motor is to far forward. The drivers side of the 62-65 core support is even notched as the factory radiator was soldered cocked in the brackets. The trans tunnels are very small also. So I say don't get mad, make it better than it was originally. Street car? I'd use the 66-70 K member unless you have some fab skills. In that case cut the K and reweld the brackets. Then I'd expand the tunnel and modify a stock trans cross member as mentioned earlier. Race car? same thing but skip the motor mounts and mount the engine on a plate. It's not rocket science. Basic fab skills required, take your time, cut templates out of cardboard. I built all this with a migwelder, harbor freight $35 shear, some hole saws, and a sawzall.
Doug

 

[brian.linn]

"Why would anyone do this?"

"Because it's my car and I'll do whatever I want with it. To hell with what any one else thinks about it."
"Because I'm never going to sell the car. I'm the only one that will ever have to know or deal with what I do."
"I wasn't willing to do what was necessary to get what I really wanted so I made something else what I wanted."
"I cloned it."
"I couldn't afford to do it right."

Or any one of the many reasons or rationales you read every day on this and other boards.

Those quotes are so awesome!!!!! Back in the day that's what they did... I would rather see a hacked-up butchered piece of sh!t on the road instead of some pretty shiny trailer queen... That's not so bad, COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE!!! I love looking at the hack jobs!!! Kind of inspiring!!!!:icon_lol:

 

[Jnelson]

Here is a picture of right side motor mount.

I couldn't get a good picture of left one.

 

[dvw]

Hmmm? Whats that weld bead between the strut rod and welded pad on the K-Frame? I'll bet it's a cut off 6 cylinder bracket.
Doug

 

[Bull1tt]

Here's a link to Schumachers' web site.

K-member ID

 

[Jnelson]

Here's a link to Schumachers' web site.

K-member ID

Thanks. Very informative. I have to check again but I thought for sure it was a 318 auto car. If not there would have been no reason to weld in v8 brackets.

I picked up the correct cross member and mount from Passon this weekend. I am going to box in the torsion bar cross member and modify the new cross member and mount and get it so that everything is secure and solid.

 

[mopar12372]

just a fyi all the metal you cut off of the steering gear support / kmember needs to be put back in or it will flex . funny on the e body forun they are welding in more metal to support the k member because it flexes stock . also on our stock eliminater dart we removed too much from the k-member and it does wierd stuff with the handling at the track.

 

[dvw]

just a fyi all the metal you cut off of the steering gear support / kmember needs to be put back in or it will flex . funny on the e body forun they are welding in more metal to support the k member because it flexes stock . also on our stock eliminater dart we removed too much from the k-member and it does wierd stuff with the handling at the track.

If you look close there are tubes from the mounting plate downward at a 45 degree angle. If it were a road race car I would have added more gusseting. As a drag car it drives fine at 145.
Doug