Just another 440

[miller]

And just need to sound off a little...
Maybe rant. Just now digging into my 440, man, closest thing to a POS I've gotten next to. Don't take it wrong. 440 is a damn fine motor. Just mine has the POS stamped all over it. Well used and abused. Sure didn't help, whoever had this thing, before I got my grubby hands on it. LOL.

Re-visited... 69 model 440 Magnum...came out of a 69 Coronet R/T, by the numbers on the block. At the factory, a 10/10 down steel crank, as the crank itself is marked. Only stamp on the pad is a B, that is supposed to mean 10 undersize main and rod bearings. Otherwise, just normal markings.

Block vated, bored 20, and an initial rub down. Bunch more to go.
The oil port from the pick-up tube, to the pump, was just about clogged to half size, with brick hard oil carbon. Still scrapping on that one. Don't know what kind of crap for oil they used in this thing...but, man! Flat surprised the motor wasn't completely burned up.

Had the crank polished, but could have been better. Going to deal with the rust on it, and take a harder look, before I decide on it.

When I got this motor, it was complete, except for a distributor. More rat-killin' time.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Congrads on your progress "miller"
I see your 440 as a "DIAMOND IN THE ROUGH"

......Out of the ashes arose a mighty winged bird...feathers ablazen while on the ground, but alas...as it swept toward the Sun the flames were extinguished and a mighty PHOENIX ruled the skies......

Hang in there miller....

"Super-bee_ski"

 

[miller]

Congrads on your progress "miller"
I see your 440 as a "DIAMOND IN THE ROUGH"

......Out of the ashes arose a mighty winged bird...feathers ablazen while on the ground, but alas...as it swept toward the Sun the flames were extinguished and a mighty PHOENIX ruled the skies......

Hang in there miller....

"Super-bee_ski"

Oh, man! Just finished laughing my *** off!! Thanks for the kind words, Super-bee_ski.

Gonna dig both feet in, and do what I gotta do. Worst motor I've ever gotten into. Guess the hemi orange paint, under all the grease, kinda blinded me! ALMOST feel better now.

 

[miller]

Hate it. Didn't want the shot-blast cleaning on the block, but really thinking about it now.
If this thing doesn't qualify needing it, none do. Mostly rust, in all the wrong places. Every inch needs to be touched, inside and out.

Already bored and honed...deal with that after I see daylight. Just like raising the dead.

Appreciate letting me sound off, to some who know what the heck I'm talking about.

 

[benno440]

acid dip it, clean everything out in 1 go

 

[biginch=bigfun]

I feel your pain, I bought what was suppose to be a "good running 440". Let's just say that wasn't the case! I found they used copper tubing for the oil pump shaft bushing. They had brased the distributor shaft to lengthen it. I should have taken the Ford blue paint as a warning sign...

This engine has fought me tooth & nail all the way. If it had been my first build it might have kept me from getting hooked on this stuff! lol

Now everything is working like it should. To the point where I feel safe to let my 16 year old drive the car.

Hang in there. You will win.

 

[miller]

Sure, acid will hit the rust on a block, but it won't touch sludge or carbon, which I still have. I had already brushed off a full layer of rust from the outside of the block, after vating.

Block is in line to be baked and steel shot. See some daylight, then I'll deal with sizes. 10/10 polished crank is a no-go. Not good enough, so going to look at 20/20.

Even when I get the block back, rub-a-dub-dub. Going to cut bad casting flaws, polish where needed, and block paint. Hell, I've always enjoyed a challenge, anyway. This will be my biggest one. No stone un-turned.

I hear you, biginch=bigfun! Kinda what I'm looking at. Gameplan is passing the car to my youngest son, but...only after I kick the bucket.

 

[IQ52]

I feel your pain, I bought what was suppose to be a "good running 440". Let's just say that wasn't the case! I found they used copper tubing for the oil pump shaft bushing. They had brased the distributor shaft to lengthen it. I should have taken the Ford blue paint as a warning sign...

This engine has fought me tooth & nail all the way. If it had been my first build it might have kept me from getting hooked on this stuff! lol

Now everything is working like it should. To the point where I feel safe to let my 16 year old drive the car.

Hang in there. You will win.

HEY, HEY, take it easy on the Ford blue paint! I didn't build your engine, but I use Ford blue on everything I build for myself.

 

[miller]

Sounds personal! Hehe.

 

[miller]

Getting the block back at the end of the week. Will finish working it.

I want to ask, since all I've used before was stock cams, any thoughts on a MoPar .455/272.

Again, this is a straight up 440 Magnum. Steel crank, iron heads, battleship valve springs, etc. Going to use the 'stock' rods, but going with KB237 +20 flat top pistons.

My question is, will that cam go, using all my Magnum valvetrain parts? Stamped rockers, springs, and so on.
Also looking at starting out with the single 4bbl intake, maybe later changing to 2-4bbls.

 

[miller]

Never realised all involved with a cam. Researching, with more to go.

Now understand a bunch more info is needed. Though didn't have some, until my machine shop gave me the word.
So, here is what I'm building up. Hope it will help.

69 440 Magnum. Planning to stay fairly stock with the Magnum, as far as hard parts. Steel crank, windage tray, valvetrain, iron intake, iron exhaust manifold, iron heads, and so on.

Block is bored .020, and decked .005.
KB237 +20 flat top pistons, to the stock rods.

I'll be doing some cleaning up on the exhaust ports, besides polishing. Nothing on the intakes, though.
Actually have sets of both 906s and 915s, but probably go with the Magnum heads.

Intend to use either an AFB, or Edelbrock, 650-750cfm (but, like I mentioned, really thinking about mounting up a cross ram later.)

Mallory dual point, mechanical advance.

2 1/2 inch pipes w/ H-pipe

67 727 Torqueflite, beefed up a little, hemi converter

67 8 3/4 rear, 3.55 gears w/ sure grip (mounted on SS springs)

Disc/drum manual brakes

Car is a 64 Sport Fury. Looking to give this 440 help in the breathing area, and hang on to the torque. Mainly a street car, but who know's, might do a pass or two.

Could have missed something, but it's a start. Open book on picking a cam for now.

 

[miller]

Not even a bite!
Bad mix? Don't matter. It's gonna go, one way or the other.

Can't even say what the compression ratio will be, yet.

 

[miller]

Well, hell...for what it's worth.
Block is almost worth looking at now. Got past all the carbon and rust. I've block painted every Mopar motor I've built, past my first. It helps to seal off the block cast surfaces. Especially blocks like this one...what I call black iron blocks. If you look at 'em wrong, they rust. That primer (769 Rustoleum) helps keep the rust down, and the oil cleaner.

- - - Updated - - -

The flip side.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Boy, nice paint job! If and when I build my next 440 I plan to use the KB 237 pistons. They wind up about .015" down in the hole for good compression. The Mopar .455/272 is a good street cam. Stock rocker gear should work there. It works well on my .509/292 cam so you should be fine. Make sure your valve spring pressures match the cam. The rest of your build sounds right on! I love a motor with a lot of low end grunt, and your choices should provide that. There's nothing like 70 to 90 MPH in a second or 2!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and don't forget the Ford Blue paint for the motor. That helps power output. Strange, but true. IQ 52 gets huge power and torque numbers on his builds, and as he said they are all painted Ford Blue.

 

[super-bee_ski]

miller,
Some guys on this forum "really know" their CAM and valve train set-ups....
I'm not sure.
I always paly safe.
I like the torque.

Maybe Hemi Rebel or Cranky or Propwash have a good recipie for your 440.

 

[GTX MATT]

That cam works really nice with stock heads. I'd put new valve springs in for sure, and you should measure for pushrods with all of the other machine work going on. But you can probably get away with stock pushrods. Rockers are fine for sure. That cam will make good power, tuned right. Its a real nice street cam in a mild engine.

 

[miller]

Thanks, guys! On this deal, needing a little prop to hang on.
Not only worst motor I've even gotten my hands on, but well used and abused. But, do see light. Getting parts fixed up, and start sizing. Dang timing chain cover so crusted with heavy rust on the outside, not even gonna look at it, lol, except to compare it with my 64's 383 cover. Close. Knew there was a reason I kept some of the parts off the blown-up 383!
Telling Gary I can't find my 440 oil pump, yet. But, might not matter. Yup, 383 oiler looks perfect! Clean inside, turns beautifully, and gonna look. Just call for newer valve relief.
The cam bit is a open book, for now. Looking at a so-called 'restoration' cam, since I think the one out, was one of the 'special grind' for the Magnums. At least want to get close, with my pick. Right now, too many unknowns...compression ratio, blah, blah.
Haven't even busted down the 906 heads, yet. Going to completely check out the springs, but from looks, they look good. Just have to make sure their still up to snuff.
I build my own stuff. Don't trust anyone else's work. The old deal...if you want it done right, do it yourself.
Last set of heads I did, only thing 'someone else' did was Reher-Morrison, who did the bronzewall inserts on the guides. I did all other machine work, and assembly. But, those days are probably gone.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

Hey miller - block looks great after lots of elbow grease and Rustoleum!

Pretty sure meep-meep used the .455/272 cam and says nothing but good things with his combo which sounds very similar to what you're building. You'll need the right springs, and I'm pretty sure stock rockers etc would be OK, but I would always prefer adjustables. Good s/h Crane or Isky sets sell here often for (I think) around $150..

EDIT - found this by meem-meep in another thread -

I picked the MoPar .455 / 272 for my 440 and was pleasantly surprised. It's a 48 deg overlap cam on a 112 LSA and runs perfect with a stock dual plane 4 BBL intake. It does seem to run out of power about 5500 RPM, which for the street is fine.

 

[miller]

Great words on the cam. Yeah, I know several of the gents here know a BUNCH more on cams, than I do. (Can a old dog learn new tricks??)
Still checking numbers on the old cam, since I haven't found a part # on it. Guess it's hidin' in the carbon. Just want to check the lift on it, to look at the #s. I'll go from there. Like I've said, too many unknowns right now, and won't know until I start gluing parts together.

Just a word on the block paint bit. The 769 red primer...did looking, and only place I could find the original blend was in England! No place in the states. Prob EPA BS. After more research, found 7769 (Rusty Metal Primer), only Rustoleum, that is supposed to be the same blend. It's the only one that's a polymer base, with fish oil. The fish oil (I suppose) is what does the check on rust, on the surface covered. Seals the surface from oxygen, that rust has to have to live.

 

[Moparmatt72]

Nice work, I've never thought to paint the inside makes sense through helps with oil return. Hopefully will remember to do this on the next motor build. At least all the hard work will pay off in the end