#22 Daytona w/KB 305ci

[mopar 3 B]

The big problem would be getting all that safety equipment into the old car and getting NASCAR to allow the extra 300 ponies their running in today's sleds.

 

[A383Wing]

just put a Daytona body on today's chassis and engine...see what happens

 

[mopar 3 B]

Wish I could find my NASCAR book, my library's a mess. You would have to build a whole new chassis to fit the old wing cars. Would make more sense to make mods to the old car. They were capable of 200 mph with less power. Just trying to equal out HP for the amount of extra safety equipment that would be required. Hot Rod had an article about a year ago on Richards take on this. I know it was saved but have know idea where to look.

 

[Bladecutter]

Fratzog.........Thanx for the nod....same page.....wus' Your flavor Mopar?

 

[65 Plymouth Satellite 426]

The Answer To Your Question About The Dodge 305 Cubic Inch Nascar Engine Used In 1971 Comes Down To This. What Other Kind Of Racing Was Chrysler Doing At This Time? Answer: Trans-Am! And What Engine Was Used In The Challengers And Cudas? Answer: Specially Built Keith Black Racing Smallblock 305 Cubic Inch Motors Developing 450 Horsepower! Not Very Good On The Nascar Ovals Where They Ran Flat Out All Day, But Pretty Decent On Road Courses Where They Upshifted And Downshifted! The 305 Nascar Motor Had Special Light Rods And Pistons In It. Still Had To Be Turned Between 8,000-10,000 RPM To Keep Up In Nascar. The Old Bobby Allision #22 Winged Daytona Coca-Cola Dodge Was The Car That Was Used With The Little "Lunchbox" Motor. It Did However, Lead 5 Laps At Daytona That Day Until Involved In A Wreck. The Car Finished Seventh In The Field. I Was Sitting In The Grandstands At Daytona That Day And Could Hear That Engine Screaming As It Went Through The Tri-Oval! And I Mean Screaming! What We Have Here Is A Pissing Match Going On Between Mario Rossi And Bill France. Mario Rossi Wanted To Continue To Run The Winged Cars And France Was Dead Against It Because Basically Chrysler And Ford Were At Each Others Throat With The Winged Wars And France Vowed To Stop It! He Figured Enough Was Enough. So France Put A 305 Cubic Inch Motor Limit On Any Winged Car Running In 1971To Handicap It Right Off The Racetrack! Rossi's Car Was Simply A Parting Shot At Nascar And Bill France. That In A Nutshell Is The True Story Of The Last Winged Warrior! Not A Destroked Big Block Or A 305 Cubic Inch Hemi; It Was A Speciallly Cast And Built 305 Trans-Am Motor!

 

[Photon440]

From the AARchives - some info on the 5 liter build.

Under the hood, a real miracle was taking place. Keith Black's engine shops had kept the 340's 4.04 inch bore but had destroked it to 303.8 cubic inches. Thanks to the special Trans-Am block which had a beefier bottom end, the main bearing web was redrilled for four bolt main caps. A cross drilled crank and forged rods were good to 8,500 RPM and the engine was kept alive with a better oiling system. The new heads were treated to a port job and the valvetrain was beefed up with Hemi rocker arms and shafts. With a single Holley four barrel carburetor, the engine now dyno'ed at over 460 horsepower.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/aarcuda/svamcaarta.html

If the #22 car engine was living at 10,000 it must have had even more work done to it, and likely more power as well. My way of thinking - I haven't seen any solid dyno info on it.

 

[Bladecutter]

fratzog......i threw a reply to You last eve, some reason didn't post. Thanks for the nod about the quotes.......same page.....critical thinking. And the Mopar in Your garage or of Your desire? jimi

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Plymouth....brew the envy Babe...You were there?! Your telling is the account that i've put stock in all along amid the misinformation. When i started the thread, my point was the mouse led five laps(pics sent by Budnick are a frame shot within those five laps before damge) and took a serious hit, Brooks executed a gorgeous recovery and took an already disadvantaged car plus damage and fought his way back into the top ten.....the car & driver were one. What was His fastest lap and what was His fastest speed in straights, in turns? I'm with Rossi's attitude to France.....should have left the racing alone....it's racing and risk is part of it. NASCAR began it's steady decline into milktoast that day. Anyway, so we're clear, i never thought it was anything other than a small block, i did think it was destroked 340, i stand corrected in that regard, since You said special casting & internals. I'm jealous as hell man, i wish i had been there, i was seventeen breaking loose......but this particular race has always meant a lot to me cuz i love b-bodies for their marvelous handling characteristics and that in itself negates the desire for big blocks.....i carve, less is more Thanx again jimi

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1986....almost bought an AAR Cuda for 900.00, turn key, please kick me. Still i prefer the longer wheelbase of B's. It just dawned on me that i've been saying i'm Moparless @ moment, not true....i got a 73 Dodge/Fireball 22 ft, cls C RV w/ 360 & a 81 Kings Highway cls A 31 ft RV w/ Healthy 440, so two Mopars. The Fireball is converted to my shop. a few years back i had a 74 Dodge/Tioga 22 ft cls C w/ 360 that i would take out & counterlock now & then....i love outrageous spectacles and driving a motorhome sideways is a spectacle that grabs some attention.....always wanted to get a little more serious and do exhibitions at drifting events, intermission shots or just stick some footage on youtube. Toying w/ the idea of turning the Fireball into an auto crosser....get the CG as low as possible, do some stiffening and suspension fab....put a few more oats into the 360 and stick a manual trans in. Just something stupid to have fun with and make People laugh. Any way, i move amongst this Mopar crowd, i realize i'm not totally Moparless. Peace

 

[Bladecutter]

Mr Ph. 440....greetings on this fine day. Out blocking on Grand Prix, but i have been learning something about comp navigation on this end....also it's not my unit, so with a little dual from owner, this dinosaur should have some photos on by tomorrow....i almost had it a little while ago....resting @ Bridge of Sighs for a minute. Thanks for the AAR archive info

 

[Budnicks]

Under the hood, a real miracle was taking place. Keith Black's engine shops had kept the 340's 4.04 inch bore but had destroked it to 303.8 cubic inches. Thanks to the special Trans-Am block which had a beefier bottom end, the main bearing web was redrilled for four bolt main caps. A cross drilled crank and forged rods were good to 8,500 RPM and the engine was kept alive with a better oiling system. The new heads were treated to a port job and the valvetrain was beefed up with Hemi rocker arms and shafts. With a single Holley four barrel carburetor, the engine now dyno'ed at over 460 horsepower.

as you can see they are not compatible or interchangeable at all, let alone fit under a SBM valve cover

I'd like to see them &/or see what they actually used

granted these are newer example except the Dick Landy ductile iron Hemi rockers
& the Mopar adjustable ductile iron SB rockers

just curious what that statement really means, something is not right
misprint or the person writing that didn't know the physical & actual differences,
let alone the geometry would be way out of wack...

by the way for those that don't know,
Pro-Stock BB's & even Top Alky combos, Pro-Mods &
many Hemi's have lived at 10,000 rpm too, I can attest to a few myself,
not for very long, but they did & they still do it occasionally...

I think there's been a little folklore, hyperbola, exaggeration,
possibly added to these old racing stories over the decades too...

 

[Photon440]

as you can see they are not compatible or interchangeable at all, let alone fit under a SBM valve cover
.

I did wonder about that part, I wonder what Kieth Black would be able to tell us.

 

[65 Plymouth Satellite 426]

From the AARchives - some info on the 5 liter build.

Under the hood, a real miracle was taking place. Keith Black's engine shops had kept the 340's 4.04 inch bore but had destroked it to 303.8 cubic inches. Thanks to the special Trans-Am block which had a beefier bottom end, the main bearing web was redrilled for four bolt main caps. A cross drilled crank and forged rods were good to 8,500 RPM and the engine was kept alive with a better oiling system. The new heads were treated to a port job and the valvetrain was beefed up with Hemi rocker arms and shafts. With a single Holley four barrel carburetor, the engine now dyno'ed at over 460 horsepower.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/aarcuda/svamcaarta.html

If the #22 car engine was living at 10,000 it must have had even more work done to it, and likely more power as well. My way of thinking - I haven't seen any solid dyno info on it.

There's A Real Lack Of Information Concerning The Dyno Info Itself. Keith Black Has Passed Years Ago, But I Would Suggest That Anyone Interested In Finding Out More About This, Contact Ken Black @ Keith Black Racing Engines. Somewhere Their May Be Dyno/Engine Build Sheets Printed During The Day!

 

[Budnicks]

I did wonder about that part, I wonder what Kieth Black would be able to tell us.

he's been dead for a few years now, My He Rest In Peace
someone at his shop may/will have that info probably...

 

[mopar 3 B]

Wish I could find my NASCAR book, my library's a mess. You would have to build a whole new chassis to fit the old wing cars. Would make more sense to make mods to the old car. They were capable of 200 mph with less power. Just trying to equal out HP for the amount of extra safety equipment that would be required. Hot Rod had an article about a year ago on Richards take on this. I know it was saved but have know idea where to look.

I found it but not anymore info them all ready posted. Sorry this got sideways.

 

[Budnicks]

someone posted photos from this article
http://aerowarriors.com/305_daytona.html

I find this was interesting also, not about the 305ci but a 404-5ci Hemi
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/A148.html

 

[Bladecutter]

Another fail

Photon.....well i got as far as right clicking Goose images off emails and naming the files, but i'm @ a speed bump with the transfer from the picture box....i get the window to upload from computer or url and both modes tell me the files can't be found...when i retrace in the computer to name files it tells me that the files already exsist and ask if i want to replace them.....i'm stalemated right now.

Our shop was broken into this past weekend, much irreplaceable tools & parts were taken, on my watch, so i'm not feeling real chip right now. I'll speak w/ a friend Who's much more comp literate than myself......i'll give this a shot again tomorrow. Eventually i'll get some pics of 8MA-1148, the "Bettie Frances Mangusta" on here and plenty of other cars and werx will follow...just got to get past the hurdle. What can i say, i'm old, don't care much about computers & cell phones, so i'm not handy with them. Hands on work is a different story however. Got a couple chop tops to throw into the mix as well. I can handle an axe too......jimi

 

[Photon440]

Bladecutter, sorry to hear about you being old. I..oh wait. No. Sorry to hear about the break-in. Seriously, I know what that's like, it can make you feel sick. I hope you get some leads on that.

I'm sure you'll find some help for the uploads. Waiting to see them...

-=Photon440=-

 

[Bladecutter]

"Bettie Frances Mangusta 1148"

Photon! I hope i can remember how i did this. 8MA-1148. a 70....was one of 50 USA export cars that had the DOT mandated flip up single beams. Horrid affairs, cable operated and the lock on mine didn't work well...had the lights collapse under cornering pressure a few times so i cut up the boxes and fixed the lights into grille nacelle...a kid..too much brass and mud, but IMO hugely more asthetic than the Lancia style flip ups. OK more will follow after a while if i retrace my steps correctly...i am learning something about comp navigation here. Peace

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Couple more of the "Goose" the composite is my 68 Post B- body and the bummer & linkin are two completes idi...the bummer was a roll over...the linkin was just a very tight strip & paint that i spent 2 1/2 mos. with. The chevelle is a cut & polish i did @ Santini's in Westminster, Cali. I've got this thing figured out now.....i have LOT's of pictures of cars, airplanes and aluminum sculpture. I got a 'Goose" pic that otta' put a grin on. L8R Mopes

 

[Bladecutter]

Huns Memorial Day Poker run, Sonoita, Az, 1980

This pic has been on the web for a while now....somebody pulled it off the mangusta registry pages and imported it into a french car forum.....some frenchie car photoger whining about how tacky it is. Wonder how many miles he put on a mongoose? iioo on clock when i bought her and i added a zero in two years. car's like doin acid...fun, dangerous, can't wait to do it again. So does this validate me Guys? Am i ready for initiation into club? I do have the Mopar RV's....i even got a really healthy 440 BB. jimi

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I'm sitting between rear wheel opening & door. Bro, i got some stories about life with this spooky beauty....lucky i didn't die probably.....very exciting car to drive...second you drop your guard...............

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My late Brother Will's builds i helped with some. The Bug is a wolf in wolves clothing...beam front sup gone replaced chrome moly fabbed a arms heim located, spax coilovers, mitchell turn and half loc - loc rack, cross drilled discs all four, 911 5 spd, 2150 w/ Webers yata....this car hauled some ***....windscreen 7" door posts kicked ala chopped merc. Van wind screen was 14"...had to lower dash, slider worked...i'm 5'8" and you can see i'm not standing straight...roofline was less than 6 ft. L8R Boss...i'll take a break for now, but rest assured i will be back with more.

 

[Bladecutter]

Current Werx

Photon....67 goat i've been involved with...camera dates are off. This is a full frame off rottiserie....extensive fabbing...lowered floor pans fabbed seat mounts...all Hotchkiss heim located fully adhust coilover...6 piston wilwood all4 & 14.5" drilled & ventilatd rotors..Tremev 6 spd,,,the LS-2 is 600 n' changehp w/ 550 lbs torque. many different efforts have gone in...hopefully summer sees color...i'll do the cut and buff and i'm going to do all the stainless, man's got a 100K in. The molded scoop extension is my deal...kitty, kitty.... also if You notice, the scoop is now a FUNCTIONAL scoop. i have done a lot of work on this pup, more to come. The sculpture is hand carved, natural polish, from an aluminum aircraft propeller blade...Hence the name Bladecutter. A translation of skills learned in the trenches. "Aluminations" is the name of that bizniss....a website will get underway sometime this year.
I'll shoot some pics of 62 Grand Prix we're working right now too...isn't a frame off but has had much of rear clip and trunk stitched...going black so we're blocking our butts off...those humps and coves down the sides are mothers...she got kitty in her too, but that don't mean it's easy. I want a 68 4 door Coronet..preferably original, unmolested...any variant will work, clean roller would be ideal. I'm real Man...every last word i have posted on this sight is GOSPEL without embellishment. I'm 45 years in straightening & refinishing auto, aircraft & marine...worked @ Warlock fast offshore power boats in 90's...there's a a miserable back breaking industry that doesn't pay s--t. Alright, i must begin my day...hope to hear back. Hey...i think i started a decent thread here...good activity for a while and.....what a car it was/is, huh?

 

[Bladecutter]

Aluminations

1999 "Flamed"'the Aluminaughty' 2007 Danatoo + Blade ^ Chalice Y & prop tip slice earrings 2013....picture box just froze. all werx are carved from aluminum a/c propeller blades. The cross is a Memorial to the Best damn Dog Ever, DanaToo December 1995- April 3rd 2010....She wuz Rock n' Roll, my co-pilot. Now i am with DanaLoo.