Are our cars rare? Yes!

[patrick66]

OK, kids, let's remember there is a difference between RARE and SCARCE.

RARE is something there was few of to start. Hemicuda ragtops qualify as RARE.

But, a 383 Roadrunner is SCARCE. They made a shitpot full of them new, and through attrition, accidents and such, there are fewer now obviously than when they were new. This is the definition of SCARCE.

The vast majority of our cars are considered correctly to be SCARCE.

Another example is my '86 Ford Country Squire wagon. There were nearly 23K made that year, and well over 250K from 1979 - 1991 inclusive. My car is SCARCE as well. In the four and a half years I've owned two of these wagons, I have seen exactly TWO others locally in that time span. SCARCE, yes. RARE, no.

Words have meaning.

 

[Durandal25]

OK, kids, let's remember there is a difference between RARE and SCARCE.

RARE is something there was few of to start. Hemicuda ragtops qualify as RARE.

But, a 383 Roadrunner is SCARCE. They made a shitpot full of them new, and through attrition, accidents and such, there are fewer now obviously than when they were new. This is the definition of SCARC

The vast majority of our cars are considered correctly to be SCARCE.

Another example is my '86 Ford Country Squire wagon. There were nearly 23K made that year, and well over 250K from 1979 - 1991 inclusive. My car is SCARCE as well. In the four and a half years I've owned two of these wagons, I have seen exactly TWO others locally in that time span. SCARCE, yes. RARE, no.

Words have meaning.

Can we also use sparse...."just fun'in"

 

[patrick66]

"Sparse" is your grass in a drought.

 

[ykf7b0]

When I had finally located a 1969 roadrunner in 1994 I had found at least 10 1st gen camaros, 10 68-72 novas, and 10 66-72 chevelles. Those same shivvys are hard to find now so you can imagine how few b body Mopar muscle cars are available. I was sure of what I wanted.

 

[verdelaw]

OK, kids, let's remember there is a difference between RARE and SCARCE.

RARE is something there was few of to start. Hemicuda ragtops qualify as RARE.

But, a 383 Roadrunner is SCARCE. They made a shitpot full of them new, and through attrition, accidents and such, there are fewer now obviously than when they were new. This is the definition of SCARCE.

The vast majority of our cars are considered correctly to be SCARCE.

Another example is my '86 Ford Country Squire wagon. There were nearly 23K made that year, and well over 250K from 1979 - 1991 inclusive. My car is SCARCE as well. In the four and a half years I've owned two of these wagons, I have seen exactly TWO others locally in that time span. SCARCE, yes. RARE, no.

Words have meaning.

 

[68sprtsat383]

I have often wondered if my car is rare or would be considered rare being that it is a 68 Sport Satellite 383 h letter code I have only seen 5 in my life since 1990 when I first got into mopars. But you guys are right these car are getting harder to find me and a guy from work was talking the other day that we would take a 318 or a slant 6 car any day than not having one at all. I remember when I was a kid seemed like there was a B body mopar everywhere but now I don't see any sitting around

 

[440+6]

I think my GTX is rare, it's the only one I have......

 

[GetX'd]

I think my GTX is rare, it's the only one I have......

Good point - I agree. My GTX is one of one and has been for 44 years. It's rare in my house.

 

[SlinktRR]

Good point - I agree. My GTX is one of one and has been for 44 years. It's rare in my house.

We have to be careful not to get caught up in the money side of this stuff. Its hard these days with Barret Jackson, mecum, and gas monkey. If you get stuck on value, rarity and selling price you wont enjoy what you have. More important question is what is it worth to you?

I use the values in Hagertys guide to justify keeping the old mopar to the wife (see, it doesn't depreciate like your new car!). Not a great investment though after you add up all the receipts. But there is no better therapy than working on the car on the weekend and taking the family out for ice cream with the old iron.

 

[440+6]

We have to be careful not to get caught up in the money side of this stuff. Its hard these days with Barret Jackson, mecum, and gas monkey. If you get stuck on value, rarity and selling price you wont enjoy what you have. More important question is what is it worth to you?

I use the values in Hagertys guide to justify keeping the old mopar to the wife (see, it doesn't depreciate like your new car!). Not a great investment though after you add up all the receipts. But there is no better therapy than working on the car on the weekend and taking the family out for ice cream with the old iron.

I agree, when I bought the GTX in 79 it was an older car and not many people wanted them so they where cheap (paid $1000 for the GTX), nobody cared how rare they where or if they where numbers matching, this all came much later and inflated the prices enough to keep them out of the hands of the people who love them the most.

 

[BeatersRus]

OK, kids, let's remember there is a difference between RARE and SCARCE.

RARE is something there was few of to start. Hemicuda ragtops qualify as RARE.

But, a 383 Roadrunner is SCARCE. They made a shitpot full of them new, and through attrition, accidents and such, there are fewer now obviously than when they were new. This is the definition of SCARCE.

The vast majority of our cars are considered correctly to be SCARCE.

Another example is my '86 Ford Country Squire wagon. There were nearly 23K made that year, and well over 250K from 1979 - 1991 inclusive. My car is SCARCE as well. In the four and a half years I've owned two of these wagons, I have seen exactly TWO others locally in that time span. SCARCE, yes. RARE, no.

Words have meaning.

thats one of the best explanations ive seen yet.
if only most people understood what this really means.
Props to you.

I agree, when I bought the GTX in 79 it was an older car and not many people wanted them so they where cheap (paid $1000 for the GTX), nobody cared how rare they where or if they where numbers matching, this all came much later and inflated the prices enough to keep them out of the hands of the people who love them the most.

and therein lies the rub.
currently only us older guys are saving these cars,
and when we are gone and nobody cares anymore,then what?

consider this, you can buy a new car grocery getter w 300 hp all day long,versus a 440 car with 350hp stock.
( yes ik they said 375 but most of them only put out around 350hp. )

now,do you think in 50 years anyone will even recall our musclecars,
except with a fond smile and an oyeah,i remember those,my dad/grandpa/uncle had 1...

so the whole price thing really is Hurting this hobby badly.
if its rare,then yes but when a slant six duster is suddenly " worth " 5 grand,then we have a problem.

 

[Sonny Black]

Sonny's 63 BB / 4 Speed (t-10):icon_sunny:...is rare but not worth s#it......it is worth more "parts out"
JMVHO


wait 'till my kids give it away when I'm gone at an estate sale auction!

 

[Bruzilla]

I remember reading the first articles about rising values in Hot Rod, Popular Hot Rodding, Autobuff (yes... I did read the articles in Autobuff... sometimes...), and other magazines in the 1980s. They started with big block E bodies, then big block 68-70 B bodies, then all E bodies. And when these magazines weren't yammering about how ridiculously high the prices on these cars were getting, they were printing top 10 lists of cars to be on the watch for in the future because they were gonna be The Next Big Thing. And our 71-74 B bodies were always on those lists. Always. So here we are some 30+ years later, and some of us are still saying the same thing, that the 71-74 B bodies are someday gonna be The Next Big Thing. I think it's time for us to accept they never have been, and never will be, The Next Big Thing.

Even when the collector car insanity was at its zenith, the values of these cars were low, which was a great thing in my eyes because aside from a misguided fling with a 72 Roadrunner GTX I've only owned 73/74 cars since they were my favorite. It didn't bother me a bit that a beautiful 73 Roadrunner would sell for $10k while a 70 might pull ten times that much. But the reality has been that most collectors view 1972 as the end of the vaunted Muscle Car Era and there's never been a big market for 73 and later cars because of that. To talk to most collectors you would think that 73 and later cars were all horse drawn affairs.

And I really don't expect to see the way things are today, or 30 years ago, changing. The only thing getting smaller than the number of cars still around is the number of buyers who want them. Most people want cars that were cool when they were kids, and our cars were the dreams of parents when much of today's youth was growing up and they were all fixated on 80s and 90s Firebirds, Camaros, Mustangs, etc., and the millenials tend to think imports are what's really cool. Yes, there are a few younger folks who are into our cars, but the majority are out buying that 90s Mustang or Camaro they wanted when they were a kid, which is why the prices on these are now getting higher and higher as the prices on ours continue downward.

What I do find sad is that now that the investors have left the market, and a lot of us guys from the 60s and 70s are graying out or dying off, there's a lot more project cars than buyers and these are getting scrapped. Maybe that's just nature correcting itself because of all the cars that should have been scrapped in the 1980s-2000s but were restored instead.

 

[jprather]

What made me realize all this is my 19 year old son said he thought a 1980s chevy Malibu might be a cool car for him to get. I said to him should be plenty of those around for a fair price. WELL! much to my amazement they are not fairly priced or as many as I thought there might be. I forgot time had passed so fast and these were now nice platforms for all kinds of builds. And wow also realized I am now an old guy! Where did all the square body s10 trucks go? I guess I got busy with life and it all passed by unnoticed . I can not say a S10 is rare but I can remember a day that does not seem that long ago when every third vehicle to pass the garage was a S10. Now I only see them on the back of a scrap truck or at Thorn Hill Drags.

Man o man, it has been YEARS since i have heard anyone talk about Thorn Hill!! my dad used to race there, along with several other people i know ! did they ever reopen it??

 

[TxDon]

Rare, scarce, vintage, collectible - those are all Car Dealer or Ebay words and very often misused. I do know that I've gone to car shows, cruise-ins, cars & coffee, auctions, swap meet car corrals and GoodGuys events for the last 30 years and the major brand cars you see the fewest of are always Mopars. I go to two Saturday morning cars and coffee meetups regularly and if I take my GTX it is usually the only Chrysler product among all the GMs and Fords. I basically never see any 60s - 70s Mopars on the street. I think that was what the OP was getting at so its good to see all the active owners and ongoing projects on here preserving whatever is left out there.

 

[Bruzilla]

One of the things I tell folks at shows is that there were more Mustangs (317,404) and almost as many Camaros (235,147) made in 1968 than there were all E bodies from 1970-1974 (281,379). This is why there are so many Mustangs and Camaros in shows today. They made millions of these cars which is why so many are still around.

 

[Durandal25]

"Sparse" is your grass in a drought.

....not mt grass, man. I baby that stuff......it's good to go!

 

[callofthemopar]

Man o man, it has been YEARS since i have heard anyone talk about Thorn Hill!! my dad used to race there, along with several other people i know ! did they ever reopen it??

yep. still open! haven't heard the name prather in about20 years either!

 

[patrick66]

View attachment 304128

No splitting hairs here at all! The two words are NOT synonymous at all. Similar in nature, but different in meaning. RARE means exactly that - few initially, and very few now. SCARCE is far more when new, and far fewer now. The difference is the number that existed to start with.

Words have meaning.

 

[Speedbird]

I guess I'm good on the one hand because I "built" two A bodies about 15 years ago. Two drive.
I had a plan for that.
People see me everyday having a good time commuting in The Dodge.
I think I'm rare. Some day I'll be scarce.
But I'm bad because I didn't buy a nice B Hemi body back in the day when I could have gotten one cheap.
Then again back in the day I really couldn't "afford" to do something like that either when I had to raise a family.
Carpe Diem.