Kratom as a pain reliever and a safe pathway to reduce/eliminate opiate use

[biomedtechguy]

Hopefully this won't wind up in the political forum, so as you discuss this, please let's keep it where more people can see it.
I am aware of and have experience with people and articles of tens of thousands of people who have discovered Kratom as a pain reliever that works. I'm not referring to something an Advil or a couple of Ibuprofen or an ice pack can handle. I'm referring to people and articles that speak of chronic or acute pain sufferers who have been on or prescribed fairly high doses of opiates. Since oxy/hydro codone is a common ingredient in narcotic pain meds, that is a good point of reference. People who have regularly taken 60 to 120 milligrams of oxy or hydrocodone a day have found a way out with Kratom. If not replacing their narcotic meds with Kratom (some have completely eliminated the use of Rx pain meds by using Kratom) they have been able to scale back its use. Others have been able to avoid or drastically reduce the negative impact of opiate withdrawal symptoms by using Kratom.
There are a wide variety of first hand stories and clinical results that I am basing these statements on. There are forums, like ours, but they focus on personal stories about people who I am referencing.
With the rampant increase in opiate addiction and overdose rates, many due to illicit drugs like fentanyl and heroin but all lumped into the broad category of "opiates" which is intentional to provide the government with a "reason" for ever more heavy handed regulation and restrictions on pain management prescriptions, you would think that legislatures and regulatory agencies, who are supposed to represent us and work towards our benefit, you would think that if a safe alternative to prescription and illicit opiate drugs was available and effective that they would promote its use, or at least not make it harder or impossible to get, right? WRONG. Unfortunately those who stand to lose power, control, and financial gains from a viable alternative to rehab centers, methadone clinics, and pharmaceutical sales of opiates are targeting Kratom, and it may only be a matter of time, a short and possibly imminent matter of time before Kratom is classified as a Schedule 1 drug, and that is going to push people either back to prescription drugs and/or illicit opiate based drugs that have life changing and sometimes deadly effects.
If you are reading this "from the outside looking in" it may be hard to understand how detrimental the impact of removing Kratom from access to the public will be, but my range of experiences cited earlier have informed me that many people will suffer and some will die if Kratom is classified as a Schedule 1 drug.
Here is an article on this, and I can assure you that it is not "excessively cheerleading" for Kratom nor is it covering up for some non-existent or overblown negative impact on those who use Kratom.
https://71republic.com/2018/12/06/state-ban-kratom-deadly/

 

[alsant]

Been taking it for about a year and a half ! Works well for my problems lower back , both knees and ankle ! Being a electrician for over thirty years have taken a toll on my body . I use it but don’t abuse it. To me it helps with the daily pains. To me it’s also like coffee gives me some get up and go. I hope they don’t schedule it and make it illegal l started taking it After I was have having some bad problems with my ankle. I think our government needs to study it more before they make any desision cause I think they would be hurting more people by making it illegal ! They would only be helping the pharmacutal company’s !

 

[biomedtechguy]

I think our government needs to study it more

That's another shady issue behind the government "declaring" Kratom as a Schedule 1 drug...If it becomes a controlled substance, ONLY "certain" "licenced by the government" labs and research institutions can study it, along with the GRANTS of taxpayer money that would fund those "select" groups to study it....
Yeah, NO CHANCE of skewed results there

select govt funded groups govt

 

[steve from staten island]

If misused is it addictive? In the wrong hands is it dangerous? Can it be used for other purposes than pain relief, i.e. getting high?
Does there always have to be a sinister controversy?

 

[luvthyapril]

As far as I'm concerned I don't trust the government I think the government is the problem they don't have our best interest at heart anymore and haven't for a while

 

[biomedtechguy]

If misused is it addictive? In the wrong hands is it dangerous? Can it be used for other purposes than pain relief, i.e. getting high?
Does there always have to be a sinister controversy?

If there is any addictive aspect to it from a physiological or psychological perspective is debatable, but if opiates and narcotics are a "10" as in the "most addictive", and that is what Kratom is replacing in most instances, I would put Kratom on the "1" or least/not addictive side of the scale.
The quantity of Kratom required to overdose is so massive it is almost impossible to ingest that much, and I haven't seen one "Kratom only" death.
People do use it for mood enhancement and relaxation. In small doses it is like caffeine, in larger doses it is more of a sedative. In either case, it is safer than Redline, an "energy drink" you can find at almost any convenience store or truck stop, or ANY form of alcoholic beverage.
No Steve, there doesn't "always" have to be a "sinister controversy" but if you are referring to my comments about the motives behind many who want to see it moved to Schedule 1, let's not go there so as to adhere to my sincere request:

Hopefully this won't wind up in the political forum, so as you discuss this, please let's keep it where more people can see it.

and I will refrain from reintroducing anything into my replies that may take this thread there.
My research and experience is that Kratom has, is, and could save a lot of people from suicide due to hopelessness and physical suffering brought on by chronic pain and the stigma foisted upon them in today's society, the difficulties in finding effective treatments for that debilitating pain, as well as Kratom helping those who have to rely on prescription drugs to alleviate pain to a point where they can function or even live normal lives: work, play, hobbies, etc without increasing their doses or suffering from withdrawals from opiates, and because of Kratom they have something to turn to instead of running down God knows what on the street that could hurt or kill them, or get them arrested, not to mention addict them to drugs like heroin.

 

[steve from staten island]

And your a expert on this drug? Your research and experience? Can you elaborate? Can you publicly state your qualifications and education that would make qualified to make a evaluation of this drug?
There is plenty of information on Kratom available and from reading it would seem that there may be a benefit, however until the FDA certifies it as safe and until the medical community, pharmaceutical community develop it, i will pass on going near it.

Did you ever take a person for chemo treatments? I dont mean drive them to there appointment, i mean stay with them, take care of them, hold there head as they had the dry heaves? There was a drug administered to my wife that helped her with some of the effects of chemo, a drug researched and developed by pharmaceutical companies that invested huge amounts of money and time to developing this product that helped countless cancer patients.
Then there were the use of Marijuana as helping with the nausea and effects of chemo. Eventually medical marijuana was legalized in many states. Our experience is it has some benefits but not nearly as much as touted by its advocates.
However marijuana seems to be less dangerous than Kratom which according to what i read may cause more problems than benefits.
I really have no solid idea if Kratom is a wonder drug, and as far as replacing some drugs that have given so many relief and makes me skeptical of opinions
Let the experts decide and let the exerts do the research, conduct the trials and meet FDA standards. If its beneficial the pharmaceutical community will devolpe it and the FDA will approve it.

 

[biomedtechguy]

And your a expert on this drug?

I never claimed to be "an expert".

Your research and experience? Can you elaborate?

I went into as much detail as I can.

Can you publicly state your qualifications and education that would make qualified to make a evaluation of this drug?

I already stated the sources of my OPINION.

There is plenty of information on Kratom available and from reading it would seem that there may be a benefit

How long have you known about Kratom Steve, and how much have you "read about it"? Did you just start now? How many people like I described have you personally spoken to or heard them tell their experiences with Kratom first hand, face to face? Zero? Or?

I really have no solid idea if Kratom is a wonder drug, and as far as replacing some drugs that have given so many relief and makes me skeptical of opinions

Be skeptical! If my post about Kratom exposes people to knowing about it for the first time, or having heard about it before and now they want to learn more about it, then I have accomplished what I set out to do. As far as opiates aka pharmaceuticals having given so many relief, they certainly have, but that is far from the whole story, and I am telling about the other parts of the story, some from the people themselves. That story has been in the news lately, in case you missed it.

Let the experts decide and let the exerts do the research, conduct the trials and meet FDA standards. If its beneficial the pharmaceutical community will devolpe it and the FDA will approve it.

Right-because "the experts" are always right, right?
I haven't been there with someone who is suffering from the side effects of chemo, but I personally have a friend I've known for decades, and he is suffering from the side effects of chemo. He gets relief from the nausea and misery by using marijuana. But since "the experts" in my state haven't legalized it yet, I guess if I used your positions as a guideline, I should tell him to stop getting relief from using an illegal drug...But you don't know, and the same applies to many who use Kratom to prevent withdrawals from opiates, is that he and they suffer so badly that they say that they would not want to go on living.
For the rest who read my posts, take from them what you will. Your results may vary.

 

[moparedtn]

I'm with Steve on this one. There are people with vastly more knowledge, education and experience than we
laymen that need to do their thing before I'll touch the stuff.

After bulging and collapsed discs in my spine and neck, trashed out right shoulder that just dislocates when it wants to,
mush for a knee that they wanted to replace 30+ years ago that just locks up sometimes
(hell no, it's my clutch knee, they can't have it), various organs removed and cancer 4 times now, suffice to say
pain is no stranger to me.
As my doc says, my "pain bucket is full" and I carry it everywhere, all the time, even though being a fair-skinned
redheaded sort with Scottish and Irish lineage, I'm told I'm the "highly sensitive" type - everything affects
me physically. Great for weather forecasting, not much good for anything else.

I am a walking advertisement for all those prescription painkillers they push - and to date, I have steadfastly
refused to take ANY of them, even after surgeries.
Yes, I'm aware that's stupid as hell, suffering when I don't have to. Been told that a thousand times.
But...
I am also keenly aware of what those drugs have done to otherwise fine people, too. I'm scared of those drugs,
simply put. Terrified I'll like them and become addicted.
Nope. Not happening.
If Advil or a Goody powder doesn't get it done, tough.
Every time a new pain is added to the bucket, I fight it and become simply meaner than it is.
It's exhausting stuff for sure - but it's my way.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I believe that Kratom a villain in an upcoming Marvel superhero movie.

 

[steve from staten island]

When you say that you dont want a thread to go political and then start with the evil government this and that, your giving a opinion and telling, dont disagree with me.
The drug is illegal in several countries. Why?
Your thoughts on this drugs benefits may be valid, it does need to be researched by the proper channels
Like anything else it can be abused and may need regulation.
My pet peeve is some people (not you) do and say the very same things about supposedly wonder cures for cancer and wonder cures to reduce the side effects of chemo. Well meaning or off the wall i have no idea but they should shut up or back up there claims with some sort of validity, they cant and dont. Hence my reply to you.
Credentials. You either have them or not.

 

[biomedtechguy]

What I have are the experiences of hundreds of people who are in the situation I thoroughly described.
Kratom was illegal in its source country, and now it's not. That is far more rare than making a substance illegal. Once something like marijuana is declared illegal by people with "credentials" to make it legal again is usually a long, hard fought battle, and the example of my friend is an example where he gets relief from the effects of chemo, but my state and our federal government says that makes him an outlaw.

 

[Slap Stick]

Well....here goes.....don't want to go near the product because the "experts" haven't given their "approval"....these are the same experts that approved the opiates that are now so "evil".

 

[steve from staten island]

K is not marijuana. Medical marijuana has some proven benefits, some benefit more than others. If you ever we’re eligible to obtain medical marijuana you find out what the procedure entails,and how the drug is processed. Should it be the same for Kratom? My point about credentials is people who have made it there life’s work and have met the educational requirements to get to that point.
We live in a society we’re the internet has made everybody and there brother a expert about any subject under the sun.

 

[multimopes]

I appreciate all the info that I can obtain and don't want to take sides but depending on ones situation, just knowing that there is something else to possibly provide relief can be a big help and maybe the ONLY solution for some people. For instance, where is a Dr. Kovorkian when you need him. Remember, it's against the LAW to commit suicide for crying out loud! What are they going to do about it, bring you back to life to punish you? I don't want to dispute anything but there is way too much $$$ for big pharma and those in high places with lots of stock backing legislation.
As for me, two doctors had me on Nexium for acid reflux for almost 6 years. NOW they tell you not to take for more than a few weeks. I did my own research after I had a piece of 3 different teeth break off in one weeks time period! It turns out that PPI drugs slow or limit acid production just fine, however, when your stomach doesn't break down your food enough, important things like magnesium and calcium do not get absorbed into your body. My whole skeletal structure has been compromised by the Pros in Dover so I now try to avoid them as much as possible. Hell. I even did my own Lobotomy as I no longer trust the "experts" with my health. By the way, the fight over packaging information is still being fought by the Big Institutions who have big money in GMO products. I also don't trust the media and challenge damn near everything I read as someone somewhere either makes a buck on it or gets off on people suffering! That's my take however bizarre it is!
I want to thank you guys for presenting your views from both sides cause I'm still learning!

 

[biomedtechguy]

We live in a society we’re the internet has made everybody and there brother a expert about any subject under the sun

Wow man. So hostile. So pro-government. If the men in the white lab coats don't approve then it can't be any good.
I guess all of the hundreds of cases that I personally spoke with or read about don't know what they experienced. I'd really like to get away from the back and forth about "government approved" vs the stories told by people affected by the scourge of opiates prescribed by Doctors who have their MD credentials and wrote DEA approved prescriptions that were obtained in licensed pharmacies.
As a matter of fact, that will be my last response to your "must be officially approved" posts.
If anyone else has questions, I suggest that you ask here or better yet try this forum for starters.
http://www.ilovekratom.com/

 

[multimopes]

What I love about the most about the vast majority of new drug products advertised on the tube these days is that the side effects, (including death), of almost all of them are far worse than what the product is supposed to help! LOL

 

[69a100]

I've never heard of it till now. If it's a alternative, then great. I'm not a big fan of poppin pills, but I do enjoy them when I blow my back out.. I can see why it's so easy to get hooked on them. But I think we should all just chill down at Lester's Methadone clinic!

 

[GetX'd]

I’ve never heard of this drug before. I know nothing other than what’s written here. My take is if this stuff helps mitigate the suffering of those with chronic pain and or helps people get off of opiates without severe consequences then there’s some significant value in its usage. My belief is that the government - well meaning or not - just gets in the way. They are “over doing it” with the control of certain medications that help suffering people in an attempt to mitigate the misuse of these same drugs by others. I’ve never used and may never use weed - but I’ve heard story after story from those that benefit from its use, especially for pain and nausea. people in their 90s are saying it helps them MORE than opiates in controlling their pain from various ailments. Yet the government chose to schedule it for decades until in some states the political popularity of its use became too large scale to ignore. It’s now finally becoming legal in many states - to the angst of and in spite of the federal government. If this drug can help people in the ways indicated and w/o serious harm I for one would like to see this decades of control issue disappear and people be allowed to benefit from using it. I’m not going to get into an argument with anyone. This is my opinion and I’m entitled to it. Period

 

[munger77]

I've had 5 patients become catatonic on Kratom; more on synthetic MJ though. All ended up on an inpatient psych unit. If you try it and it works without side effects that is fantastic. Just be careful as with any drug.