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An inconvenient truth

Take your message to Neanderthal before the last ice age. Change your ways or become extinct bet that would have been quite the selling point.
We were never promised an eternity on this planet nor guaranteed one. Man has always found a way to depopulate and survived. Famine, disease, wars and natural disaster. This was promised over 2000 years ago and we are just now concerned. All for the wrong reasons.
 
This misses the point. The issue is us. Now. Neanderthals, Cro magnon had their time, and we will too.

Humans are however now numerous and sufficiently technologically-advanced to have a very significant impact on this Earth. This probably also should come with responsibility to take care of the Earth and environment for future generations. Instead we offer arguments that are not always pertinent on Fora like this one to defend our actions.

The point however is that the evidence points to climate change and humans playing a role in that change.
 
This misses the point. The issue is us. Now. Neanderthals, Cro magnon had their time, and we will too.

Humans are however now numerous and sufficiently technologically-advanced to have a very significant impact on this Earth. This probably also should come with responsibility to take care of the Earth and environment for future generations. Instead we offer arguments that are not always pertinent on Fora like this one to defend our actions.

The point however is that the evidence points to climate change and humans playing a role in that change.
So I guess you do not believe in the master plan? If we become extinct it will not be of our doing.
Now a real question. If we stopped the use of all fossil fuels today how many people do you think would survive the next 6 months? Really something to think about.
Myself I an more concerned about what is happening to our food and water supply. What we do with waste and the myth that old is junk and new is great. I am old enough to remember when things were repairable instead of throw away. Have you really tried recycling anything lately and I don't mean setting it out on the curb for pickup?
 
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The discussion I responded to on the previous page was that climate change was fake with the implication that humans have no role in it and that the vast majority of scientists are paid to reach a specific conclusion. Both of those arguments are not supported by the data.
 
I read about the climate issues and it astonishes me that Humans believe that they are so in control that they can effect a planet. We are just fleas on a dog and go where it wants to go. The one thing I have come to realize is that we control very little. The earth shook all the dinosaurs off, closed ranks and moved on and why believe it won't do the same with us.
 
I can see why we might think we cannot have an effect, but having one actually isn't so crazy. The composition of air and the oceans are impacted strongly by bacteria. Other organisms change their environments. We have had a profound effect on soil quality (some of the points raised above about food directly relate to that). The water cycle is impacted locally by cities. And we have emitted compounds (like CO2 and CFCs) that have affected atmospheric chemistry and radiation balance. There are a lot of us and our impact is grows as population increases. Should we sit by and do nothing? That is up for debate. Is there climate change? And have we had an effect? The evidence certainly points that way.
 
Okay, i'll weigh in here. To begin with, my father in law was a great history professor, among other things, and our son is a Nuclear Physicist. We all had this conversation a few years ago. The gist of it is that this planet has cyclic climate change....period. Along with that cyclic change it has external stimuli like changes in the Sun over long periods, solar events like radiation increases, internal planetary changes such as the possibility of crustal displacement, volcanic activity both above and below land and ocean. Global magnetic anomalies and changes. Weather patterns worldwide contribute to overall change in many places such as once forested areas becoming grassland ( Alaska), once grassland areas becoming sandy deserts. ALL of these factors, taken together as a whole, and many more, act upon each other, and with each other to create the world we see and live in. We humans incorrectly assume that everything is about us.....when in FACT we are insignificant in the grand scheme of planetary events and timelines. We sit in our homes and watch TV programs that tell us that when a certain volcano blew up it blanketed the globe with ash and changed the environment for years. Some how, these MANY events in our recent history seem to be discounted or outright ignored by most. The cyclic planetary minimums and maximums also get ignored. In our haste to be heard and agreed with in our never ending need for validation and power/praise, we spout half truths, and pop science as explanation for ongoing events and changes, and insert OURSELVES into the equation because, well, we are the masters of the Universe, right? Wrong. As someone above said, " We are as fleas on a dogs back , and we go where the dog goes."
Do we as a species do things that exacerbate the changes? Of course we do, cause and effect. Are WE the cause of all of the observable changes? Of course not, don't be silly.
Climate change, Global Warming etc...are MONEY makers. In every way. Someone would find a way to make us pay for air if they could. It's a racket, pure and simple. Here's how you can see that it's true.
Simply take away all monetary gain and consideration from the situation. Then what happens? Suddenly nobody will care about this and it would die a quick death as a popular bone of contention. It is the absolute HEIGHT of narcissism for us to believe that our puny civilization will destroy a planet that has survived EVERYTHING for more than 4.5 billion years. Come on...really? So say I, and so say those who I have discussed this with, who have reason to know the truth and enough humility to not place themselves into the equation.
 
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So I guess you do not believe in the master plan? If we become extinct it will not be of our doing.
Now a real question. If we stopped the use of all fossil fuels today how many people do you think would survive the next 6 months? Really something to think about.
Myself I an more concerned about what is happening to our food and water supply. What we do with waste and the myth that old is junk and new is great. I am old enough to remember when things were repairable instead of throw away. Have you really tried recycling anything lately and I don't mean setting it out on the curb for pickup?
If they lost the internet, I don't think a lot of people could survive for six months.
 
if there were to be an EMP strike,6 months?? Try 6 days.....lol. After 3 days people will be looting everything, after 6 days they will begin to kill for food and water, after 8 days they will break into homes where people have stuff, and take it. after 2 weeks rape and pillage, after a month disease will set in from rotting corpses, after that gangs and preppers will battle it out. 6 months? It will all be over by then, preppers and gangs will have taken their spaces and battle it out over time.
 
I had a Professor show a clock as a representation of the history of the Earth. Humans would not appear until 11:59:59. That one second really puts things in perspective.
 
Being in risk management, I need to confront all sorts of risk probabilities and weigh accepting a loss should it occur, or spending money to avoid it. It's reducing the odds though never guarantees one way or the other. Part of the deal is presenting the evidence and forecasts, odds, ROI, etc. to company owners in the interest of mitigating or controlling their operating risks. Some are risk takers and other are more risk averse. Accordingly, you can guess what type of reactions one receives from each sort. Sound familiar with climate change? What plays in is any evidence or signals foretelling of a loss and to what extent one can impact preventing it. Sound familiar with CC? As I mentioned in my earlier post, we have evidence, signals, (wild weather patterns, etc.) and knowledge indicating what's contributing to CC (at least our possible contribution). As such, my suggestions would be if we can do **** to make a positive change why not do it? We have the technology and when I think fossil fuels they got to end some day maybe 100 years who knows; but an end is a reasonably logical assumption. Again, when I look at my kids I think of the probability scale (look up Prouty Approach), and say we should take this seriously and be taking responsible-reasonable measures to thwart CC rather than sit on it.
 
I have and always will do right by the life that I have been given. I will do may share to make the earth a better place, to leave it better then I found it. All I do is drive around in my 65 minding my own business while all the do gooders and big shots are flying around state to state preaching to me in a jet that consumes more air in ONE take off then a 100 people will consume in a life time and leaves a carbon foot print the size of football field and what was it I did............... When they walk, I'll walk, till then, lets start at the top this time and work our way to the bottom feeders like me........ Hey-O.... Let The Horses Run!!!
 
Just to make sure the fight is about the right thing. I agree that much of the cyclic nature of climate, the role of the sun and orbit, and first order controls that are outside of our abilities as humans to change. I only advocate that we have reached a point where we have impacted our environment (local, regional, and even global). I don't think this is hubris. It might be humility. I agree with the responsibility statements and would really like to see that. And I also agree with the statements about flying.
 
The title was a satirical jab at Algore's book on the "global warming crisis". Wouldn't it be ironic if the extra co2 in the air has prevented the next ice age? No matter what, we are entering another solar minimum and it looks like the next few winters are going to be pretty nasty.
You know, this gave me a CRAZY idea...but then again, at one time is was "crazy" to think humans could fly. We have a lot of very clever people + scientists/engineers on this site, so who knows?

Now, the CRAZY idea....what if we could intentionally "pollute" the air (or upper atmosphere) during solar maximums & then "clean" the air during solar minimums? That wouldn't stop hurricanes or floods altogether, but we could sort of "smooth out" the Earth's climate so weather is more consistent.....crazy, I know....just a thought. OK guys, anyone have an idea?
 
You know, this gave me a CRAZY idea...but then again, at one time is was "crazy" to think humans could fly. We have a lot of very clever people + scientists/engineers on this site, so who knows?

Now, the CRAZY idea....what if we could intentionally "pollute" the air (or upper atmosphere) during solar maximums & then "clean" the air during solar minimums? That wouldn't stop hurricanes or floods altogether, but we could sort of "smooth out" the Earth's climate so weather is more consistent.....crazy, I know....just a thought. OK guys, anyone have an idea?


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Actually we need "Global Warming" to compensate for the Earth gradually cooling. It's all in Gods plan to even things out, LOL!
Not as crazy as you might think. It might actually "help" if we could do it a slower rate.
 
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