Muscle cars?

[Cojohnso1]

Who said it was a sin?....Not me, I have owned race cars so?.....In our hobby "purist" is referred to originality......

I believe if you have an all original? It is a sin to change. And not only from a perspective point. But financial too. If you pull a factory original 440 out of a Roadrunner to make a hemi Roadrunner? You just took at least a $20k hit. You may very well make it up in the custom market. But why? Find a non numbers matching? Plenty out there? JMO

 

[moparnation74]

I believe if you have an all original? It is a sin to change. And not only from a perspective point. But financial too. If you pull a factory original 440 out of a Roadrunner to make a hemi Roadrunner? You just took at least a $20k hit. You may very well make it up in the custom market. But why? Find a non numbers matching? Plenty out there? JMO

Was there a factory built road runner with a 440?(six pack is excluded).......

 

[Ironbuilt]

I have argued that the muscle car era and make was only from '64-'71. And only includes mid size. From a "Purist" point of view. I believe the first true Muscle car was the 64 GTO. Pontiac purposely built and labled "The working man's sports car." And that started I believe the greatest competition, styling and performance era in US automotive history. The list of cars of that era that is considered "Muscle car" is actually small. All others are either Pony, sports car, family, luxury or race specialty.

My Muscle car list. (Alphabetical order)

Buick: Grand Sport
Chevrolet: Chevelle SS
Dodge: Charger/Superbee
Ford: Torino GT
Oldsmoble: 442
Plymouth: Roadrunner/GTX
Pontiac: GTO

I understand this short list and tight 8 year window is very argumentative. Like the "E bodies." Chrysler took a pony car and made wider to a midsized. But too late. The Challenger and Cuda are pony cars. So are all "A" bodies. Which includes. AMX, Nova, Duster/Demon, Camaro, Mustang. Cars like Thunderbolt, Superbird are specialty. Vettes of course are sports cars.

This of course is just my opinion. But if a younger person say's "I want a classic Muscle car?" I say "You only have the list to choose."

Let the disagreement begin?

I argue that you, my friend, are a treasonous traitor!!!! What about the Max Wedge cars? Screw the GTO, my 63 in Max Wedge form would eat it alive!!!
What about the 64 Hemi cars?

 

[slimt]

I miss the days of Running these cars hard on the street.. it was a blast..

 

[Ironbuilt]

I miss the days of Running these cars hard on the street.. it was a blast..

I still run mine hard!!!

 

[oldbee]

And then there’s a “little” aftermarket. How ‘bout a ‘67 Belv II with a transplanted Arlen Vanke 440 that I was lucky enuf to ride in way back. Couldn’t find anyone that wanted to try it! Not mine, darn.

 

[dual fours]

I still run mine hard!!!

I could never again run like I did back then on the streets. There could be a race starting at any intersection with a traffic light starting on the green light (this being done when the sun went down, the dark hours, the bewitching hours). It could be over in 20 feet or run out to 2,467 feet. Hell the cops may shoot at you nowadays. Cameras on every other corner with gun shot sensors (Central would see and hear the cars racing), cell phones with camera's, stupid people walking across the streets talking to them selves, wait no their texting, talking and walking. I'd love to go back and relive those hot summer nights as a teenager, and not know what I know now, just for one summer. We only had CBs and scanners. It was a different place and time. Muscle car...it does have a nice sound to it and does command respect.

The funny part here is that I remember the cops driving/chasing us with Chevs. Biscayne (some listed above as a Muscle Car). I remember the side badge being 427 or 454, In my mind I can still only see the first ''4'' clearly, thinking back then, he has more Cubic Inches then me.

 

[Cojohnso1]

I argue that you, my friend, are a treasonous traitor!!!! What about the Max Wedge cars? Screw the GTO, my 63 in Max Wedge form would eat it alive!!!
What about the 64 Hemi cars?

View attachment 730867

Treason? Lol. Treason has a military element. I don't think this qualifies. And performance is not the qualifying factor. Intent really is that factor. And yes, the factories definitely saw the appeal of performance. And created a new class of passenger vehicles. And the Max Wedge era certainly influenced. The earliest Hot Rodders would routinely call the Muscle car era the "Ultimate Treason." Saying factory built race and hot rods defeated the whole purpose of "HotRodding" So for every advance? There is always a rebuttal.

 

[Cojohnso1]

I could never again run like I did back then on the streets. There could be a race starting at any intersection with a traffic light starting on the green light. It could be over in 20 feet or run out to 2,467 feet. Hell the cops would shoot at you nowadays. Cameras on every other corner with gun shot sensors, cell phones with camera's, stupid people walking across the streets talking to them selves, wait no their texting, talking and walking. I'd love to go back and relive those hot summer nights as a teenager, and not know what I know now, just for one summer. It was a different place and time.

Let alone? Today's cars with factory power adders? Just too powerful for street racing.

 

[Cojohnso1]

Was there a factory built road runner with a 440?(six pack is excluded).......

Good question? Not sure. I would assume there was that option. But maybe not. Maybe 440-6 was the only RB wedge option?

 

[Ironbuilt]

Treason? Lol. Treason has a military element. I don't think this qualifies. And performance is not the qualifying factor. Intent really is that factor. And yes, the factories definitely saw the appeal of performance. And created a new class of passenger vehicles. And the Max Wedge era certainly influenced. The earliest Hot Rodders would routinely call the Muscle car era the "Ultimate Treason." Saying factory built race and hot rods defeated the whole purpose of "HotRodding" So for every advance? There is always a rebuttal.

You just said a whole bunch of NOTHING!!! You must be a politician!!! The early Max Wedge cars started the "Muscle car" movement long before the POS GTO!!! Get your facts straight!!!

 

[mopar 3 B]

Because they never would have done that if it wasn't for the Charger suscess. Cornet was the base model. It's like calling the Belvedere a Muscle car? Because it was base to the Satellite which is base for Roadrunner/GTX (Roadrunner is just a stripped down GTX.) Which I know sold better.

So you could buy a hemi Belvedere and only a 440 Satellite in 66 and the Belvedere is not a muscle car?

 

[Cojohnso1]

You just said a whole bunch of NOTHING!!! You must be a politician!!! The early Max Wedge cars started the "Muscle car" movement long before the POS GTO!!! Get your facts straight!!!

You don't need to be a name calling turd! With that argument we can go back to flatheads. Motors progressed. I'm sorry. But for my taste the early 60s cars were ugly as sin. The "Savoy" was not purposefully built to be a factory hot rod. Roadrunner was. That's the difference. Most Savoy's had 6 cylinders.

 

[Cojohnso1]

So you could buy a hemi Belvedere and only a 440 Satellite in 66 and the Belvedere is not a muscle car?

Nope. Belvedere was full size. Like I said. It's argumentative. And very subjective. But stuffing a bigger motor doesn't make it a Muscle car. Otherwise? Everything could be?

 

[Cojohnso1]

Well. The tread did better than I thought before it pissed people off. The funny thing was I first heard the term "Muscle car" after 1971. I would be interested when the term was first published? (Car ad or magazine article?) It certainly wasn't before 1964.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Nope. Belvedere was full size. Like I said. It's argumentative. And very subjective. But stuffing a bigger motor doesn't make it a Muscle car. Otherwise? Everything could be?

I fail to agree with you the older Belvedere was full sized the 66 only weighed 3400 lbs. and was hardly full sized.

 

[dadsbee]

So your FULL SIZE '69 GTX is a Muscle car and the '66 Belvedere with a Hemi is not ! Put away the Purple koolaid !

 

[Cojohnso1]

So your FULL SIZE '69 GTX is a Muscle car and the '66 Belvedere with a Hemi is not ! Put away the Purple koolaid !

GTX is Midsized.

 

[gdrill]

I posted this long ago. It doesn't describe or fit all, but it fits the idea.

"Just what is a Muscle Car? Exactly what the name implies. It is a product of the American car industry adhering to the hot rodder's philosophy of taking a small car and putting a BIG engine in it. To balance this out, handling, braking and related essentials are modified to result in a performance machine for the streets. They tack racy names to the car: GTA, GTO, GTX, or just plain GT; R/T, SST, SS, GS or, for the lack of better initials, 4-4-2. They doll the car up with fancy trimmings and put it up for sale. And it sells like crazy"....Road Test Magazine 1967

 

[Cojohnso1]

I fail to agree with you the older Belvedere was full sized the 66 only weighed 3400 lbs. and was hardly full sized.

I believe Belvedere did switch to b-body (65?). But most it's life as Full size.