Who has the best 451 crate motor with cast heads that makes 500 HP

[33 IMP]

CME, carolina machine engines used to offer an assortment of crate bbm, but it looks like they still offer only one, a 6something hp 522, for $11k. RB only.

 

[YY1]

Are crate 440's still available?

 

[33 IMP]

Are crate 440's still available?

I sure dont know of any. Mopar performance at one time offered a 440 small block, but that is long gone. CME apparently offers a 522 in a box.

 

[Challenger340]

Cast Iron heads for a factory look. I know it's easy to build 500 plus HP with aluminium heads. There were a few companies making crate 451 motors with cast Iron heads in the 7K price range a few years back. Also like the extra header room and room to change spark plugs. Excellent rod ratio.

If you are looking for the "factory look" ?
Then....
why not just begin with STEALTH Aluminum Heads at $499. each sold by 440Source ?

Outwardly they appear exactly the same as a factory Cast Iron Head.... hence why they are named "STEALTH" because once painted you can't tell they are Aluminum ?
yet...
They will outflow any Cast Iron Head rebuilt/ported for the same $499. money parts/labor by a longshot !

 

[Cojohnso1]

Agree. Most mopar fans elevate the early 400 to god like status. Yeah the webs are thick, thicker than you and 99% of the street racers will ever need. How many people over paid wildly for a "cold weather block" only to have their machinist tell them it failed a sonic test?

Fact. The 400 is the biggest bore size Chrysler has ever produced. In that? There is power opportunity. To ignore because of some sense of loyalty to RB? Is silly. The B-block design and profile will produce more power cubic in to cubic inch than RB. RB has the potential to higher cube builds. Chrysler ran out of time to incorporate hemi head design to lower deck engine designs. But I'm sure that thought was in their mindset?

 

[IQ52]

Factory cast iron heads and horsepower = vast quantities of dollars. We've recently been getting a lot of requests for iron heads in the 500-600 horsepower range!

Wow really??? What the heck, that is a lot of tedious flow bench, hand labor and dirty work the way we go about it!

After I ask a few questions about why they require those flows in iron heads I've simply been quoting them $3,800. That is enough money to make us happy to do the project.

Every one walks away thinking how dog gone good those aluminum heads are looking!

Right now we have our '346' iron headed 450 stroker not quite ready to fire on the dyno........so I guess we'll see what gives.

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/son-of-a-gun.202631/

Well I'll be damned. Man building a 512 for the street insists he needs a set of the iron heads. We'll see if he sends any money.

 

[33 IMP]

Fact. The 400 is the biggest bore size Chrysler has ever produced. In that? There is power opportunity. To ignore because of some sense of loyalty to RB? Is silly. The B-block design and profile will produce more power cubic in to cubic inch than RB. RB has the potential to higher cube builds. Chrysler ran out of time to incorporate hemi head design to lower deck engine designs. But I'm sure that thought was in their mindset?

Well I'll be damned. Man building a 512 for the street insists he needs a set of the iron heads. We'll see if he sends any money.

I can see that for a f.a.s.t. car, where it HAS to be iron, and they check, but other than that.......no.
(But then, i just had a pair of professionally ported maxwedge heads freshened. They might make some power.)

 

[fratzog lover]

Fact. The 400 is the biggest bore size Chrysler has ever produced. In that? There is power opportunity. To ignore because of some sense of loyalty to RB? Is silly. The B-block design and profile will produce more power cubic in to cubic inch than RB. RB has the potential to higher cube builds. Chrysler ran out of time to incorporate hemi head design to lower deck engine designs. But I'm sure that thought was in their mindset?

Agree. I just dont get the crowd that seeems to think any stroker build other than a 400 block will grenade over 500 hp. They are out there. I'd love to have a 400 to just do a hot .030 over 400. We did all kinds of stressful stuff with 383's and 440's back in the day. The bottom of the blocks held up just fine.

 

[Cojohnso1]

I have a set of 452s. Heavily ported. I poked the value cover stud thru to the water jacket for the last time. Lol. Went aluminum. I am going to weld up (again) on that corner. Clean them up for a future swap item? They were on my 451 pump gas build. ( 88 cc.) Now? 65 cc Brodex B1/BS closed chamber on E-85. (My high school math went from approx 10.25:1 to 12.7:1 compression. Thus the E-85 fuel delivery.

 

[fratzog lover]

I have a set of 452s. Heavily ported. I poked the value cover stud thru to the water jacket for the last time. Lol. Went aluminum. I am going to weld up (again) on that corner. Clean them up for a future swap item? They were on my 451 pump gas build. ( 88 cc.) Now? 65 cc Brodex B1/BS closed chamber on E-85. (My high school math went from approx 10.25:1 to 12.7:1 compression. Thus the E-85 fuel delivery.

Now that's some compression.

 

[BSB67]

Fact. The 400 is the biggest bore size Chrysler has ever produced. In that? There is power opportunity. To ignore because of some sense of loyalty to RB? Is silly. The B-block design and profile will produce more power cubic in to cubic inch than RB. RB has the potential to higher cube builds. Chrysler ran out of time to incorporate hemi head design to lower deck engine designs. But I'm sure that thought was in their mindset?

What is really silly is chasing after a 400 block because the bore is 0.020" bigger than a 440 block for a 500 hp motor.

Guys make 700 hp on 4.03" on bores in 360 blocks.

 

[IQ52]

Crap! My family is all screwed up! We took the 400 out of his truck and replaced it with a 440 and removed the 500"/440 from my car and are replacing it with a 450"/400. We're all gonna have to go to counselling!

Or.....what a dumb argument?

 

[Challenger340]

I dunno here.... I just think the what's better(400 Vrs 440) thing is a moot point on 450-550 hp builds ?
just say'in....
no matter what you use..... 500hp with 500 ft/lbs using a 400 Block ?
is basically the same thing as 500 hp with 500 ft/lbs using a 440 Block ?

At least that's what the Engine Dyno says ? I just can't see getting all stressed about a 'must have' situation around 400 Blocks to start with on those 450-550hp level builds Vrs just using a 440 Block ?

 

[Highwaystar]

Like I said earlier looking for header clearance, spark plug maintenance ease, and I don't need 650 to 800 H.P. I've had it. Just looking to build a 500 H.P motor for a stock factory appearing 70 Roadrunner, and I think a 451 is a good candidate to make that easily on pump gas, and the stealth heads sound like a good option for the stock look.

 

[Mike67]

This may be a silly question, but it's based on rumor, not experience, but has anyone ever compared a B build to and RB- CI being similar ,stroked/bored, similar/same valve train/induction and looked at how fast the rpm builds?
Simply put, many say that the stroked B build rpm faster than does an RB and therefore prefered.
Just curious if there is any truth to it.
Thanks

 

[IQ52]

Here is my silly answer...............Before I had my own dyno I ran my 451 stroker on another dyno. It made 787 HP @ 7,200 rpm and the dyno operator/owner said, "It rev's like a small block Chevy." Later we ran our 500"/440 on that same dyno where it made 848 HP @ 7,200 rpm and the Dyno operator/owner said, "It rev's like a small block Chevy!"

We can all draw our own conclusions I guess.

 

[padam]

This may be a silly question, but it's based on rumor, not experience, but has anyone ever compared a B build to and RB- CI being similar ,stroked/bored, similar/same valve train/induction and looked at how fast the rpm builds?
Simply put, many say that the stroked B build rpm faster than does an RB and therefore prefered.
Just curious if there is any truth to it.
Thanks

I've wondered about the "it revs faster" comment before.
I would think, all other things being equal, if 2 engines were tried in the same car, if one revs faster it must make more power.

 

[ckessel]

Any issues using a 383 based stroker build? Especially since there are more donors available?

 

[Mike67]

Here is my silly answer...............Before I had my own dyno I ran my 451 stroker on another dyno. It made 787 HP @ 7,200 rpm and the dyno operator/owner said, "It rev's like a small block Chevy." Later we ran our 500"/440 on that same dyno where it made 848 HP @ 7,200 rpm and the Dyno operator/owner said, "It rev's like a small block Chevy!"

We can all draw our own conclusions I guess.

Thanks, that made me laugh!
I figured you would have some real world experience with that I appreciate it!
What would you anticipate from
a stroked 451 B ( 4.375) vs a .050 (4.370) over 440 (450ci), both have 3.75 stroke and 6.76 rod ,CH being the difference everything else being equal.
Anything to gain ?
Thanks IQ!

 

[BSB67]

Any issues using a 383 based stroker build? Especially since there are more donors available?

Can't make any power with a 4.25" bore......just kidding.

Generally speaking, for the guy building a <600 hp motor, the best engine to build is probably the one laying in the corner of the garage that has readily available parts.