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1974 Charger 1 of ?

RBCharger

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http://smclassiccars.com/dodge/683469-1974-dodge-charger-rallye-440-sunroof-1-of-4-built.html

So I'm seeing a number of articles on this car and Galen G. somehow saying this is 1 of 4 440 cars with sunroof in 1974. I just bought a 1974 440 Sunroof Charger SE B. Mines triple black and all authenticated - Fender tags, body stampings and broadcast sheet. Kinda thinking this might be 1 of 1 with the triple black. Is GG the only guy that can authenticate this car?
 
My buddy had one ,I did some research on them, yeah its fairly rare. But the color breakdown thing is pretty unsure, and quite fordy.
 
74 was a high production year for sunroof cars in general.

Can't comment on rallye or 440...or all three combined.
 
I wouldn't put a lot of stock in anything GG has to say. Just know that he got paid so there's that.
I'm noticing the language GG uses is something like: 1 of x KNOWN to exist...

By that logic I'm gonna say mines 1 of 1 w sunroof and 440 and triple black known to exist...

Shouldn't all of the data that GG has be published by now for all? I'm not sure how or what he has data wise, but that should be released. He's up there in age anyway. Would be terrible for that data to be lost again.
 
IIRC there are two different sets of numbers.

Production numbers, which only exist for certain levels of detail.

...and those "in my records, or "known to exist", and "in my database" numbers, which really don't mean anything other than what they actually say.
 
I'm noticing the language GG uses is something like: 1 of x KNOWN to exist...

By that logic I'm gonna say mines 1 of 1 w sunroof and 440 and triple black known to exist...

Shouldn't all of the data that GG has be published by now for all? I'm not sure how or what he has data wise, but that should be released. He's up there in age anyway. Would be terrible for that data to be lost again.


"Known" to HIM or you or any one individual. That's only the cars in his data base.

That's the tricky part about claims like that. Maybe there's a similar car stuck in a ravine deep in the woods of Georgia that he, you or I don't know about. A car may be 'known' to a lot of people but not widely and publicly 'known'.

Published for all? No. It his private data and information not unlike what others have accumulated. It's not public information. But, the data is valuable and I hope there is a succession plan.
 
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This is a hotly contested and often debated issue. IMO it is a bit like like a self licking ice cream cone in that GG says it is "1 of X" known to exist however he will not produce any documentation to prove this because it supposedly data that he has collected over the years and built a data base off of. He spent a considerable amount of time going to dealerships, car shows, etc. cataloging a large number of cars based on the VIN, fender tags and when available broadcast sheets along with dealer records.

The problem is that none of this is complete and unfortunately in many cases incorrect. That said, his business model has been and remains to be that everyone needs to take his word that this or that car is what he says it is much like an art appraiser, the difference being is that normally an art appraiser can show how he/she arrived at whatever value or facts concerning a specific piece whereas GG will not (didn't cannot).

He has made a living off of doing this and I suspect still does to a degree however in recent years he has run into some problems, mainly he has been wildly wrong on several very high end cars (talking 7 figure cars) which it is rumored led to some legal issues. Additionally he is personally just a dick, arguing with anyone who questions his statements, refusing to help anyone he deems "unworthy", etc. Now you will find people who say they like him or had a pleasant experience with him, typically these are people were were handing him money to tell them what they wanted to hear.

For quite awhile having a GG appraisal carried weight (read value) and in some circles it still may but in general his "letter" while not worthless is not "the word". As to the issue of succession, I believe this will be a revenue generator post his passing meaning his heirs will sell off whatever data he has to one of the other "gurus" out there but it might not be worth what GG thinks it is, but then again who knows.

It is very rare to find 2 Mopars that are identical bc Mopar did things vastly different than the other manufacturers, not to mention the fact that no records are available and options can be easily added. We all would like to believe that our classic Mopars have value but too many times that value is artificial in the sense of the "1 of X" statements bc that is hypothetical at best, however some investors are willing to spend big money for these types of cars. Personally I cannot make sense of classic car values anymore, they are up and down based on many factors, most of which have nothing to do with the actual car.
 
"Known" to HIM or you or any one individual. That's only the cars in his data base.

That's the tricky part about claims like that. Maybe there's a similar car stuck in a ravine deep in the woods of Georgia that he, you or I don't know about. A car may be 'known' to a lot of people but not widely and publicly 'known'.

Published for all? No. It his private data and information not unlike what others have accumulated. It's not public information. But, the data is valuable and I hope there is a succession plan.

I had thought he had some Chrysler records that were essentially the only copy - this is what I'm referring to, not his information that he's collected. I am respectful that what he's personally collected is his. I know there was a fire that destroyed most of the records after 1967? but for some reason was thinking he had some Chrysler information on production numbers etc. This is what I would like to see released.
 
"Known" to HIM or you or any one individual. That's only the cars in his data base.

That's the tricky part about claims like that. Maybe there's a similar car stuck in a ravine deep in the woods of Georgia that he, you or I don't know about. A car may be 'known' to a lot of people but not widely and publicly 'known'.

Published for all? No. It his private data and information not unlike what others have accumulated. It's not public information. But, the data is valuable and I hope there is a succession plan.

I hear you - 1 of 1 except the 3 cars in the ditch in Georgia... (Tongue planted firmly in cheek) Look, I just made my own day! I own a SUPER rare Charger!!
 
Too bad some of the information was lost and too bad Ma Mopar didn't have a better breakdown of options past engine and transmission. Most of the 69 and newer color breakdowns were just a percentage. I don't know if that info came from Mopar or from Galen. It' is all we have to work with.
 
I did a lite Google on it, looks like 2388 74 roof cars.
 
834 74 Charger SE 440 cars. Most were loaded so there are many of these with sunroofs. How many triple black? We will likely never know.
 
You could extrapolate a certain percentage will be black.
 
Yeah, I would think 10-20%, was pretty popular combo in 74. My 74 440 Rallye is triple black.
 
I had thought he had some Chrysler records that were essentially the only copy - this is what I'm referring to, not his information that he's collected. I am respectful that what he's personally collected is his. I know there was a fire that destroyed most of the records after 1967? but for some reason was thinking he had some Chrysler information on production numbers etc. This is what I would like to see released.

As far as I know he does not have any "1 of 1" records (see what I did there... lol). He collected a large quantity of data mainly from dealers going out of business and I suppose some that were still in business as well as documenting cars everywhere he could. He does not have any "holy grail" documents that no one else has, rather he has managed to organized a large amount of data to develop his "data base" from which he makes his assertions about a specific car. He started off authenticating cars as being what the owner said they were (real RT, real 440 4spd, etc.) but then as investors started to get very interested in the cars he began to elevate his service by providing the "1 of X" statements always followed by "known to exist" (this is because he got into trouble early on stating that something was 1 of X and was proven wrong).

His service along with others are merely guess work post the actual number of that model/year were made. Chrysler did not keep records on how many yellow, 440 4spd, black interior am/fm 8 track, stripe delete, with road wheels 71 Chargers were built (this is just a made up example). They did however note what percentages of cars were built of a specific year in a specific color, meaning (again made up) that if 3% of the 1971 Dodges were yellow, you could determine what percentage of the entire line were chargers or even charger RTs and then extrapolate how many "could" have been yellow. This is the same with any/all options (which is why so many people get upset when someone wants to get fender tag made).

In other words, everything he and pretty much everyone else does is complete guesswork, however there is no way to refute him or anyone else. Pretty much all of the data is available that is out there and anyone could do the same math and arrive at the same or a similar answer, however he (and others) have made a name for doing this which has been accepted as being valid by many, thus of value to have his letter.

The "fire" thing is a bit of an urban legend and widely cited as the reason we do not have the detailed records that other car manufacturers have. However there are a number other "rumors" as well, one is that the records were simply thrown away to make space or to empty a building. Another is that the records (some or all) were actually taken and are in fact being held by someone (I've been told in Canada) but that they won't release anything fearing a huge legal retaliation by Chrysler.

Then the last one (rumor) is that Chrysler does in fact have the data but will not release it because they fear the backlash from the hobby not to mention potential legal issues from investors/collector's who paid a lot of money for a vehicle only to find out it is not correct. Now this "rumor" IMO has some teeth because back around 2013 I attended SEMA and while there I visited the Mopar booth. I got to talking to young guy (late 20's early 30's) who worked for Chrysler at the booth. After a little while he said he wanted to show me something and went into their meeting room area, when he came out he was holding a large brown binder. He handed me the binder and explained that this was a project he was working on and the concept was that someone could send them a VIN and pay a fee and they would build this binder with information about that model and specific car to include exactly how that car left the plant. I was in shock and asked him if Chrysler had the records for all of these cars and he responded with "oh yeah its all on microfiche and stored in one of our buildings in MI". I asked him this same question at least 3 times in slightly different ways to include whether or not he had personally seen these records all of which I got the same answer to.

By the 3rd question he was looking at me weirdly like "why do you keep asking me this" and I then asked him if he understood the significance of his statement? He responded that didn't really but was beginning to think it was a big deal and I told him it was a huge deal. He asked me if I thought people would pay for that service to which I responded "more than you can imagine both in price and volume". Finally after about an hour someone older came out and pulled to the side, when he came back his began to try and back pedal saying that he wasn't sure what they had. He exchanged phone numbers with a friend of mine who had a Mopar restoration business but my friend said they never communicated because the Mopar employee would never respond to calls or texts.

So, believe what you wish but the bottom line is that GG and others are still making money off the hobby to one degree or another but I as I originally stated I would not put any faith in anything GG said nor would I pay him a dime, but thats just me.
 
Rallye was nowhere near as popular as SE in 74.
 
Rallye was nowhere near as popular as SE in 74.

If this is in response to my post I was referring to the color combo being popular not Rallyes being popular..
 
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